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Tricks of the Trade... #1110076
11/09/11 09:54 AM
11/09/11 09:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
F
F1Scamp Offline OP
mopar
F1Scamp  Offline OP
mopar
F

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
Whats some of the tricks for getting the last little bit of mph, e.t. out of your car. I am going to be shooting for the smallblock record in F.A.S.T. this weekend at MIR. I am going to need every little trick I can find. You always hear people say they have there car " Set on Kill", what the heck does that mean? I run the car out everytime. Should I be thinking of thinner oil, etc. etc. Does changing where the car goes into staging beams make a difference on et.? Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

Car is 71 Duster, 402cu in stroker smallblock, factory heads, intake, exhaust manifold, thermoquad. All worked.


Work In Progress- 71' Duster F.A.S.T.- 10.36@130 Smallblock Record Holder.
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: F1Scamp] #1110077
11/09/11 10:15 AM
11/09/11 10:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee Offline
master
dannysbee  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
Stage as shallow as possible. Put as much air as possible in the front tires. Synthetic lube in everything. The stock guys run less oil in the engine. I might skip that mod. Loosen up the accessory belt so it will slip at higher rpm.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: dannysbee] #1110078
11/09/11 10:19 AM
11/09/11 10:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
master
gregsdart  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,963
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
904 trans if legal. 8 1/4 rear?


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: gregsdart] #1110079
11/09/11 11:09 AM
11/09/11 11:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
master
1967dartgt  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
Switch on alt to turn off during run.


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: 1967dartgt] #1110080
11/09/11 01:17 PM
11/09/11 01:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
0w20 synthetic oil, bring a big fan to cool the engine between rounds, synthetic light weight gear oil as thin as you dare, pack ice bags with shaved ice all around the intake and carb between rounds, drop the t-bars till it is almost sitting on the bump stops (weight transfer in the 60ft and aero dynamics at the fast end), have the alighnment double checked, you want the wheels to end up with zero toe while rolling down the road, I like to spread the front of the wheels while setting the alighnment and set the toe to zero, thay seem to roll a lot easier when setting them this way, if you run the carb a tad lean to keep the plugs clean then richen it up to run it's fastest. Remove floor mats, glove box, contents, jack, spare tire, trunk mat all excess fuel (don't fill it for ballast, sloshing ballest does almost no good, if you need ballast bolt it in the trunk as close to the bumper and high as possible, if you can bolt it to the roof of the rea edge of the trunk even better), set rear drums for no drag, WD-40 on all the front end rubber bushings to loosen them up a little, make sure you leaf spring clamps are good and tight...

If I think of any more I will post em up


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: HotRodDave] #1110081
11/09/11 01:42 PM
11/09/11 01:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
master
Streetwize  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Several years ago I was going to build a 71-72 TQ 340 based 904 backed Duster for F.A.S.T. but about that time they asked me to be their Tech guy so I got side-tracked and sold the car. It was a 72 Twister /6 car in really nice shape I sold to B body Bob. I was planning a 4.1 x 4.1" 433 motor using light 2.05" thin stem intake valves and my own cam specs.

Take full advantage of the Duster's long rear overhang, just 10 more static pounds added behind the bumper (like adding the 13 pound 1973 reinforcing plate) can have the same dynamic effect as putting a 40 pound battery 1 foot behind the rear axle centerline. Duster's and Chevy II wagons are the best "natural hook" cars I've ever played with.

Have the allignment shop physically jack the front end of the car approx 1-1/2" inches BEFORE setting the allignment....this will simulate the car under acceleration and decreases the rolling resistance down the track. Dynamat in floor of the spare tire well adds a few strategic pounds in just the right place as well.

Amsoil gear lube is typically worth at least ~.03 on most cars I've ever back to back tested...I like to get some heat in the rear axle by idling the drivetrain on stands in the pits for a few minutes.

If you're serious about it dyno-tune the car on a chassis dyno before the race documenting every 'cause and effect' jetting and timing change.


WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: HotRodDave] #1110082
11/09/11 01:46 PM
11/09/11 01:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 348
South Lyon, Michigan
6
6bblRoadrunner Offline
enthusiast
6bblRoadrunner  Offline
enthusiast
6

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 348
South Lyon, Michigan

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: Streetwize] #1110083
11/09/11 01:49 PM
11/09/11 01:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
T
Triple Threat Offline
master
Triple Threat  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Get all the oils hot and thin, and the water and intake as cold as possible.


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: 6bblRoadrunner] #1110084
11/09/11 01:56 PM
11/09/11 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones  Offline
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
G

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Quote:

Check this out...

http://www.dvorakmachine.com/tech_LastMinuteHeroics.shtml




"Add another 1/2 quart of oil Dan". LMAO


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: Guitar Jones] #1110085
11/09/11 08:20 PM
11/09/11 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,644
So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,644
So Near, Yet So Far
An old buddy of mine, who came up through Stockers into the early Funny cars, used to dip his wheel bearings in oil as opposed to packing them with grease. He'd set everything just tight enough to go straight, suspension bushings loose but still locating their assigned parts, that kind of thing. His big thing was to minimize any rolling or moving resistance in the car. That Dvorak article is excellent, BTW.

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: 1967dartgt] #1110086
11/09/11 09:01 PM
11/09/11 09:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Switch on alt to turn off during run.




I use to do this...made 0 change if the battery is up
to full charge... use as much air pressure as you can
in ALL of the tires... thinnest oil as possible plus
1 QT low... crank scraper if allowed

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1110087
11/09/11 09:08 PM
11/09/11 09:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,101
cincinnati ohio
M
mcat4321 Offline
master
mcat4321  Offline
master
M

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,101
cincinnati ohio
take a hammer and dent the floor pan under the gas pedal, so it goes down farther

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: mcat4321] #1110088
11/09/11 09:47 PM
11/09/11 09:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,828
Ontario, Canada
small wheels up front, big one's on the back ... so it's always going downhill!

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: Stanton] #1110089
11/10/11 09:32 AM
11/10/11 09:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
F
F1Scamp Offline OP
mopar
F1Scamp  Offline OP
mopar
F

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
Thanks guys for the suggestions. It has a 904 trans and a spool equipped rear. I wish I could put some real tires on it and it still be legal. lol. I am going to pick up some 0 weight oil, and I have a few ideas on how to cool the car down between rounds. I need to get this carb straightened out still also, a/f last time out was around 10-11:1.
I didn't realize that nitrogen is that much lighter and can make that much difference in the weight of the tires. I have a nitrogen tank and regulator at work.... 6-8 lbs of rotating weight would be nice to get off.

Keep them coming!


Work In Progress- 71' Duster F.A.S.T.- 10.36@130 Smallblock Record Holder.
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: F1Scamp] #1110090
11/10/11 09:33 AM
11/10/11 09:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
F
F1Scamp Offline OP
mopar
F1Scamp  Offline OP
mopar
F

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
Also I picked up a 16v race battery, figure it is worth a try? Anybody gain anything switching from 12v to 16v?


Work In Progress- 71' Duster F.A.S.T.- 10.36@130 Smallblock Record Holder.
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: F1Scamp] #1110091
11/10/11 11:38 AM
11/10/11 11:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee Offline
master
dannysbee  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
Keep adding weight to the rear of the car and launch the car more aggressively. When the car slows down go to the weigh of you fastest pass. I think the 60's will improve enough to over come the cost of the extra weight.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: dannysbee] #1110092
11/10/11 11:42 AM
11/10/11 11:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
master
RemCharger  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
I only saw the request for more mph, didn't even look at e.t.
Thats the bracket guy in me,, et means nothing but a number on your windshield.

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: RemCharger] #1110093
11/10/11 12:58 PM
11/10/11 12:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
S
scatpacktom Offline
master
scatpacktom  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
Just turn the starting line rev limiter up

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: F1Scamp] #1110094
11/10/11 07:49 PM
11/10/11 07:49 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
H
HPMike Offline
master
HPMike  Offline
master
H

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
Brian

I can get you two tenths. No tools needed. FAST legal 100%. If you are interested, give me a call......

MB

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: HPMike] #1110095
11/10/11 07:56 PM
11/10/11 07:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
sunroofgtx Offline
I Live Here
sunroofgtx  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
Mike, I think he is already running the FireCore 250 8mm wires.


Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: sunroofgtx] #1110096
11/10/11 08:24 PM
11/10/11 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
S
scatpacktom Offline
master
scatpacktom  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
Bring some for me too Mike! GLUG GLUG GLUG

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: scatpacktom] #1110097
11/10/11 08:30 PM
11/10/11 08:30 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
H
HPMike Offline
master
HPMike  Offline
master
H

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
Quote:

Bring some for me too Mike! GLUG GLUG GLUG






You going?? I'm makin the trip..

MB

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: F1Scamp] #1110098
11/10/11 08:56 PM
11/10/11 08:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340 Offline
master
fishy340  Offline
master

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fart in the other drivers helmet

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: HPMike] #1110099
11/10/11 08:57 PM
11/10/11 08:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
S
scatpacktom Offline
master
scatpacktom  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
Quote:

Quote:

Bring some for me too Mike! GLUG GLUG GLUG






You going?? I'm makin the trip..

MB




Yep, I'm starting to feel better and so is the T/A. So I'm looking to take a pop at that 11.44 as well

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post6910408

Last edited by scatpacktom; 11/10/11 08:59 PM.
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: 6bblRoadrunner] #1110100
11/10/11 09:08 PM
11/10/11 09:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
S
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion
sixpackgut  Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion
S

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
Quote:

Check this out...

http://www.dvorakmachine.com/tech_LastMinuteHeroics.shtml





that was great.


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: HPMike] #1110101
11/10/11 10:07 PM
11/10/11 10:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
F
F1Scamp Offline OP
mopar
F1Scamp  Offline OP
mopar
F

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
Quote:

Brian

I can get you two tenths. No tools needed. FAST legal 100%. If you are interested, give me a call......

MB




You messing with me Mike? I only have your shop number..


Work In Progress- 71' Duster F.A.S.T.- 10.36@130 Smallblock Record Holder.
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: F1Scamp] #1110102
11/10/11 10:39 PM
11/10/11 10:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr Offline
master
cheapstreetdustr  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
have you tried putting an ignition retard module in it? retard the ignition timing 2*-3* after it shifts into high gear..

cheapst


365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: cheapstreetdustr] #1110103
11/10/11 10:53 PM
11/10/11 10:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,091
oberlin, Ohio
Rapid340 Offline
top fuel
Rapid340  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,091
oberlin, Ohio
Hope both you guys do well. Have fun and be safe.


1971 Factory Appearing Duster 340 11.000 @ 122 mph
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: F1Scamp] #1110104
11/10/11 11:22 PM
11/10/11 11:22 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
H
HPMike Offline
master
HPMike  Offline
master
H

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
Quote:

Quote:

Brian

I can get you two tenths. No tools needed. FAST legal 100%. If you are interested, give me a call......

MB




You messing with me Mike? I only have your shop number..




Nope, I'm serious

Leave the carb tune alone and call me tomorrow if you want..

MB

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: fishy340] #1110105
11/10/11 11:53 PM
11/10/11 11:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
Too Many Posts
slantzilla  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
Quote:

fart in the other drivers helmet






Pack the front wheel bearings with STP. You'll have so little friction the wheels will turn for 5 minutes after you park the car.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: Rapid340] #1110106
11/11/11 10:09 AM
11/11/11 10:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
S
scatpacktom Offline
master
scatpacktom  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
Quote:

Hope both you guys do well. Have fun and be safe.




Thanks Jeff

Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: scatpacktom] #1110107
11/22/11 09:21 PM
11/22/11 09:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
dannysbee Offline
master
dannysbee  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
Well did anything here help the cause?


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: Tricks of the Trade... [Re: dannysbee] #1110108
11/22/11 09:57 PM
11/22/11 09:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
F
F1Scamp Offline OP
mopar
F1Scamp  Offline OP
mopar
F

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 419
NY
The 0w oil didn't do anything but freak me out going down the track.
The 16v battery was worth something. I am assuming the alternator not working had something to do with it, though it seems to even idle better.
My homemade vacuum pump was worth something.
Tuning the carb was worth something.
Staging shallow made a huge difference.
Making the rear brakes stop dragging I am sure helped. Lowered the front and rear of the car over 1 1/2". Took the suspension apart and re-greased everything, Re-did the alignment. Still couldnt launch the car higher than 1100rpm.
Overall the car picked up almost a full 2 tenths and 2mph over its previous best. 60' stayed the same at it's best 1.68. This is the best air and track the car was ever run in, was great air, I think right at sea level, best previous was 1200ft. I think I picked up more than most of the guys?
On an interesting note, the car picks up an even amount .1 in the 60' equalled exactly .1 in the quarter.


Work In Progress- 71' Duster F.A.S.T.- 10.36@130 Smallblock Record Holder.
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