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Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: bcrproducts] #1109458
11/10/11 10:51 PM
11/10/11 10:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
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BDS871Cuda Offline
top fuel
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land of 10,000______'s
Quote:

Had not seen that kit yet sorry. Descent copy of our design. Had to happen sometime. Our design will be back out soon and is sustantially different in the way it works.. Once ours is back out I would hope out of respect, Moparts members and others will buy ours and not a copy of what we designed without any consent. Hopefully you all buy legit software and not pirated versions as well. I can understand right now to build a motor you all want something that works.

Greg




Everybody copy's somebody. Here is a page from
the 1964 Don Garlits racing catalog. He was
selling Hemi Chrysler main supports way back over
48 years ago. I'm sure he copied someones idea
and just made it better.

6913350-dg06[1].jpg (505 downloads)

Snap your neck, mega G-force launch, is all I want!
Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: BDS871Cuda] #1109459
11/10/11 11:12 PM
11/10/11 11:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,402
State of Corruption
camdog440 Offline
pro stock
camdog440  Offline
pro stock

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Posts: 1,402
State of Corruption
That Garlit's piece looks stout.
It must have been for the 354/392 hemis... in '64 he was still running the old hemi.

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: bcrproducts] #1109460
11/10/11 11:40 PM
11/10/11 11:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,494
Shelby mi.
J
JAKE68 Offline
pro stock
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pro stock
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,494
Shelby mi.
Quote:

Had not seen that kit yet sorry. Descent copy of our design. Had to happen sometime. Our design will be back out soon and is sustantially different in the way it works.. Once ours is back out I would hope out of respect, Moparts members and others will buy ours and not a copy of what we designed without any consent. Hopefully you all buy legit software and not pirated versions as well. I can understand right now to build a motor you all want something that works.

Greg


I don't know how long ago you made yours but the guy that makes them for Mancini made one for us for the motor we did for my brother was about 6-7 years ago. We found a couple of flaws in that got corrected on the second one. At that time I was never aware that there even was anything like it out there . . Jake


JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: camdog440] #1109461
11/11/11 07:31 AM
11/11/11 07:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,935
Holly/MI
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Dean_Kuzluzski Offline
master
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Holly/MI
Quote:

That Garlit's piece looks stout.
It must have been for the 354/392 hemis... in '64 he was still running the old hemi.




If you look, the crank centerline and the oilpan mounting surface are even. It's a lot easier to make than the later B/RB/Hemi set-up.

I've always wondered how well a plate of metal can absorb the crankforces that are applied laterally but apparently it helps.


R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: BSB67] #1109462
11/11/11 11:16 AM
11/11/11 11:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
I'd love to have all the test equipment to see exactly what the stresses & dynamics of a main cap are under operating conditions. However, my thoughts after talking w/ the machinist who prepped my last two blocks are:

1. The girdle is NOT expected to keep the caps from being pushed directly down.
2. The girdle helps add stability by keeping the main caps from "waiving around" due to the various directional loads placed on them.

Think of this like a flag pole that is unsupported at the end where the flag is being moved around by the wind. If the normally unsupported end of the flag pole was also attached to a stationary object, the "waiving around" will be reduced. Yeah, another over-simplified analogy on my part, but IMO it still makes sense.

Therefore, even the low-budget girdles should still add some level of improved bottom end durability, even if not the optimal (re)design of cap / girdle / block integration.

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: BradH] #1109463
11/11/11 05:22 PM
11/11/11 05:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Holly/MI
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Dean_Kuzluzski Offline
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Holly/MI
OK, so, horizontally, not vertically relative to the crank centerline.

I like the theory behind why splayed 4 bolt set-ups work.


R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1109464
11/12/11 10:34 AM
11/12/11 10:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,020
Andrews,In. U.S.of A.
6
67_Satellite Offline
super stock
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super stock
6

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Posts: 1,020
Andrews,In. U.S.of A.
Thought they were splayed to spread the forces from the bolts out over a greater area of the block?

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: 67_Satellite] #1109465
11/12/11 12:02 PM
11/12/11 12:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,935
Holly/MI
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Dean_Kuzluzski Offline
master
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Holly/MI
Quote:

Thought they were splayed to spread the forces from the bolts out over a greater area of the block?




I'll guess partially but not completely. The transfer of all the crank forces are not in one direction. One bank is going to send pulsations a different direction than the opposing bank.

Just like "cap walk" isn't just horizontally. It's more like the caps are bouncing within the elasticity of the bolts (or studs) and as the the crank transfers forces the caps walk/bounce accordingly absorbing pulsations within its limits until they break.

Or so I would guess.


R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: BDS871Cuda] #1109466
11/12/11 12:06 PM
11/12/11 12:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
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smokinwoody Offline
I Live Here
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somwhere
heres a pic of BCR's girdle/main caps assembly


Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: smokinwoody] #1109467
11/13/11 03:52 PM
11/13/11 03:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,325
Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
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Labratt Offline OP
Good Ol Randy B!
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Good Ol Randy B!
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
That BCR set-up is one STOUT looking piece!

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: Labratt] #1109468
11/13/11 04:16 PM
11/13/11 04:16 PM

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Quote:

That BCR set-up is one STOUT looking piece!




That's the unit I have as well.

Last edited by Superfreak; 11/14/11 12:07 AM.
Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: 69darthulk] #1109469
11/13/11 08:13 PM
11/13/11 08:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
ONTARIO,CANADA
6
604 Hemi GTX Offline
mopar
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mopar
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ONTARIO,CANADA
Quote:

I used the kit from 440 source. Low deck making around 700hp and am very happy with how it's holding up. Had the machine shop set it up and line hone it. They were nice enough to mark the shims for when I reasembled it.
http://store.440source.com/Main-Stud-Girdles/products/135/





Just wondering how the 440 source main girdle would work with aluminum main caps. I see he sell the kit, just wondering
Kevin

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: smokinwoody] #1109470
11/13/11 11:24 PM
11/13/11 11:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4 Offline
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gulfport, ms, west mi
Quote:

heres a pic of BCR's girdle/main caps assembly







It's such a nice piece it's a shame to cover it up with the oil pan.



it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: BradH] #1109471
11/14/11 12:59 AM
11/14/11 12:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
master
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Canton, Ohio
Quote:

Not being a machinist, I'm curious why you need to have the main caps align honed when switching from bolts to studs, considering the caps fit into the main registers and the hardware is just there to strap 'em down. Yeah, I know, that's an over-simplified view... but still.




IMO, The distortion issue of the extra torque value is minimal. The studs extra shank diameter vs the bolts shank diameter is what can kick the main registers out of skew. Ive seen it, you wouldnt think it could happen but it does.


The simple finger nail test will catch it. Now it catches , before it didnt.

Yeah, I know, thats's an over-simplified view... but still.

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: ] #1109472
11/14/11 02:09 AM
11/14/11 02:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
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smokinwoody Offline
I Live Here
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somwhere
Quote:

Quote:

That BCR set-up is one STOUT looking piece!




That's the unit I have as well.





thats why I want one to replace the CRE unit that I have...mine uses the stock caps...I want the extra beef and I like the main caps going web to web adding to the rigidity..

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: rowin4] #1109473
11/14/11 11:53 AM
11/14/11 11:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,049
Mo.
racerx Offline
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Mo.
Quote:

Quote:

heres a pic of BCR's girdle/main caps assembly







It's such a nice piece it's a shame to cover it up with the oil pan.




That is a pretty piece wonder what that setup would cost ya.

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: racerx] #1109474
11/14/11 11:57 AM
11/14/11 11:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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joshking440 Offline
Lunch is on me!
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Indy
If i remember correctly I paid around 850 dollars for the main caps and girdle but I could be off a few bucks

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: joshking440] #1109475
11/14/11 12:20 PM
11/14/11 12:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,049
Mo.
racerx Offline
master
racerx  Offline
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Mo.
Quote:

If i remember correctly I paid around 850 dollars for the main caps and girdle but I could be off a few bucks


That is a nice pease..but if i was to do another bullet i'll just in vest that 850.00 in a new block.Speaking of blocks any testing made with the new b-block yet

Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT??? [Re: racerx] #1109476
11/14/11 09:33 PM
11/14/11 09:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,279
bcrproducts Offline
super gas
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Posts: 1,279
They were $799.00 back when I was making them.That came with ARP main studs Arp studs fro the girdle and pan rails and all fasteners required in the bottom end build for the pan rails

Greg

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