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727 kickdown band, change in car?
#1096539
10/17/11 08:20 PM
10/17/11 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I have heard this can be done but I am strugling, got the old one out ok but can't get the new one in  Any tips? I do have the flex band. I have always pulled the trans but a Durango is kinda a pain, thought I would give this a try for once 
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: 383man]
#1096542
10/17/11 08:53 PM
10/17/11 08:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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My own personal car. Just figured that since I had heard so many times over the years it was possible I thought I would give it a try, if it won't go well no biggie, trans would have had to come out any how. Old band came out real easy but new one don't seem to want to go more than 1/2 way around. Just figured if it was easy as I had heard it would save me about 6 hours, trans was shifting fine just noticed during a routine service the band was near the end of the adjustment. VB come out in about 5 minutes with the pan off already, band strut in 2 minutes why not give it a try right. Not trying to "do it the wrong way", doing it the wrong way would be to pretend I didn't see nothin. Never heard of a 2 piece band, that sounds like the wrong way right there.
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1096545
10/17/11 10:02 PM
10/17/11 10:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
Southern USA
TN_Michael
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Southern USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
I totally agree and he's a newbie too
Being a newbie has nothing to do with it. What matters is doing the job right and to not take short cuts. It is not a place to short cut. Knowledge & experience are king.
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: dOc !]
#1096548
10/18/11 12:50 AM
10/18/11 12:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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Quote:
IF you toasted the band .. the drum is probably hurt tooo ..... the trans has got to come out .. 
The old band was not "toasted" just worn till there was almost no adjustment left, no metal to metal contact, I am replaceing it as a precaution, drum looks great. I have lots of experiance with thease trannys, could build one blindfolded if it was on a bench, I have built tons of thease trannys, just never tried to stick a band in with the trans in the car. The opurtunity presented itself, I caught a problem before it was a problem, so I thought I would give it a try.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1096549
10/18/11 01:07 AM
10/18/11 01:07 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 92
PA
68_CONV_300
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Quote:
Quote:
IF you toasted the band .. the drum is probably hurt tooo ..... the trans has got to come out ..
this from the guy who cant do a simple google search for ATF ... 
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: J_BODY]
#1096550
10/18/11 01:58 AM
10/18/11 01:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
you have pm.... no need to get the self righteous defenders of the written procedures up in arms.
If it's possible I'd like to know how , the fact that he got it out means there is enough room and it should go back in as easy as it came out. Personally I've never tried it and the times I have had a trans out and apart it never appeared like there was enough room to do it?
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1096552
10/18/11 11:51 AM
10/18/11 11:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,074
detroit, mi
POS Dakota
super stock
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super stock
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detroit, mi
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Quote:
My own personal car. Just figured that since I had heard so many times over the years it was possible I thought I would give it a try, if it won't go well no biggie, trans would have had to come out any how. Old band came out real easy but new one don't seem to want to go more than 1/2 way around. Just figured if it was easy as I had heard it would save me about 6 hours, trans was shifting fine just noticed during a routine service the band was near the end of the adjustment. VB come out in about 5 minutes with the pan off already, band strut in 2 minutes why not give it a try right. Not trying to "do it the wrong way", doing it the wrong way would be to pretend I didn't see nothin. Never heard of a 2 piece band, that sounds like the wrong way right there.
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
haha
No, it wont work, and no I dont blame you at all for trying.
It's a complete pain in the ass to remove a 46re. I hate them which is why I converted to a 727.
You'll have to unbolt it and pull the front pump.
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: gtx6970]
#1096553
10/18/11 11:53 AM
10/18/11 11:53 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,074
detroit, mi
POS Dakota
super stock
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detroit, mi
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Quote:
I've done it. maybe 3 or 4 times in the past 25 years.
And for the exact same reason as well - the 4wd Durango/Dakotas trucks that are one of the toughest trans to get out.
The way I look at it, if the trans is solid and theres no issues with the ft drum why pull the trans. It's less headache and saves the customer money.
That said, to get it in I think you have to hold your mouth right and it will go.
I tried like crazy to do it and it wouldnt work for me.
I dont know what you're doing to accomplish it. the lugs on teh ends of the band made it impossible for me.
And yes they are an absolute nightmare to remove and a lot heavier than one would think. How do I know? I dropped one on myself doing it on a set of jackstands.
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: POS Dakota]
#1096554
10/18/11 11:53 AM
10/18/11 11:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
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Quote:
Quote:
My own personal car. Just figured that since I had heard so many times over the years it was possible I thought I would give it a try, if it won't go well no biggie, trans would have had to come out any how. Old band came out real easy but new one don't seem to want to go more than 1/2 way around. Just figured if it was easy as I had heard it would save me about 6 hours, trans was shifting fine just noticed during a routine service the band was near the end of the adjustment. VB come out in about 5 minutes with the pan off already, band strut in 2 minutes why not give it a try right. Not trying to "do it the wrong way", doing it the wrong way would be to pretend I didn't see nothin. Never heard of a 2 piece band, that sounds like the wrong way right there.
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
haha
No, it wont work, and no I dont blame you at all for trying.
It's a complete pain in the ass to remove a 46re. I hate them which is why I converted to a 727.
You'll have to unbolt it and pull the front pump.
Why is it everytime I see you post your wrong?
As Bill stated above it can be done, not easy but it can be done.
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#1096555
10/18/11 12:22 PM
10/18/11 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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Complete change of plans, I just had a guy come in with another durango needing a 5.9 engine, I am pulling my engine and selling it to him, then re-building a spare 44RE I have in the corner and a 5.2 to match. I will have a complete rebuilt powertrain in my 240,000 Durango and hopefully get better than 14mpg. I will re-build the 46RE and sit it on the shelf till a needarises for it. PS My tech who was off yesterday just got it to slide in in 5 minutes still gonna pull it all out.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#1096556
10/18/11 12:48 PM
10/18/11 12:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,074
detroit, mi
POS Dakota
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,074
detroit, mi
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
My own personal car. Just figured that since I had heard so many times over the years it was possible I thought I would give it a try, if it won't go well no biggie, trans would have had to come out any how. Old band came out real easy but new one don't seem to want to go more than 1/2 way around. Just figured if it was easy as I had heard it would save me about 6 hours, trans was shifting fine just noticed during a routine service the band was near the end of the adjustment. VB come out in about 5 minutes with the pan off already, band strut in 2 minutes why not give it a try right. Not trying to "do it the wrong way", doing it the wrong way would be to pretend I didn't see nothin. Never heard of a 2 piece band, that sounds like the wrong way right there.
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
haha
No, it wont work, and no I dont blame you at all for trying.
It's a complete pain in the ass to remove a 46re. I hate them which is why I converted to a 727.
You'll have to unbolt it and pull the front pump.
Why is it everytime I see you post your wrong?
As Bill stated above it can be done, not easy but it can be done.
I dunno, maybe you're just a big tool with a chip on his shoulder who only sees what you want? 
Yeah, I think so. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm right on that one. 
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: 68_CONV_300]
#1096557
10/18/11 12:54 PM
10/18/11 12:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
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Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
IF you toasted the band .. the drum is probably hurt tooo ..... the trans has got to come out ..
this from the guy who cant do a simple google search for ATF ...
THIS from a asshat newbie ...
EVERY topic on any internet site is "searchable".... and if we did just that ... there would be NO NEED for any type of forums.
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: POS Dakota]
#1096558
10/18/11 01:14 PM
10/18/11 01:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Yeah, I think so. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm right on that one.
Quote:
PS My tech who was off yesterday just got it to slide in in 5 minutes still gonna pull it all out.
Wrong again .... 
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1096559
10/18/11 05:47 PM
10/18/11 05:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,729
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Rio Linda, CA
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This has been discussed before; after a previous can/can't discussion I went out to the shop and tried it on a fully assembled 727 on the bench....ain't no friggin way that band was coming out regardless of what some said they had done.
Then it dawned on me, some bands might be different. That's the advantage of having shelves full of parts, a quick check of the new/used flex bands I had showed .080" difference in the thickness of the band anchor ends. (widest was .630", narrowest was .550") Factor in the probable difference in case dimensions and the correct answer is....some can, some can't.
I only had 5-6 bands to compare, maybe there's an even bigger difference when comparing all the various brands.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1096560
10/18/11 11:58 PM
10/18/11 11:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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Funnny you mention that, I think that is why I had trouble, the original was .580 and almost fell out and the new one was .608 took some doin to get in. One advantage of the trans in the car VS bench might be the guts hanging down opening up that clearance instead of hanging down takeing up the clearance.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: dOc !]
#1096562
10/19/11 12:12 PM
10/19/11 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I am gonna asume that was not meant to be a crude joke Doc so here is the answer, yes there is clearance in the moveing parts and even with brand ne parts in the trans there is still clearance and it may only be a few thou but it could mean the differance in the band going in or not.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1096563
10/19/11 04:44 PM
10/19/11 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,729
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Rio Linda, CA
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The main obstacle to get around is the front drum and even a loose bushing is only gonna let it hang a few thousandths but that might make the difference.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1978367
12/29/15 02:10 AM
12/29/15 02:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR
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master
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Amarillo, Texas
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Resurrecting an old, old thread....
My need to do this very thing has arisen.
98 Durango, 5.2L 44re.
Front band anchor cracked and bent. Trans lost 2nd. I have the old band out, but wanted some pointers on wiggling the new one back in.
Do you snake it in up by the drum, or do you snake it around the rotator farther back then wiggle it forward to the drum?
Any input would be appreciated!
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1978553
12/29/15 02:10 PM
12/29/15 02:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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44re is a 904 right , I thought there was more room in there ?
Did you compare lug thickness between the new and old ?
running up my post count some more .
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1978567
12/29/15 02:23 PM
12/29/15 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR
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Amarillo, Texas
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Yes, a 44re is a 904 based trans.
New band is stuck at fedex because of weather, so I have not been able to compare the two.
If I could have gotten the band past the lip (on top) at the sun shell I think it would have slipped back and came out no prob. Since the adjuster lug was bent and broken, I just pulled it the rest of the way off with some vice grips and then pulled the band out.
It's pretty tight in there up by the drum.
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: BBR]
#1978646
12/29/15 04:01 PM
12/29/15 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,729
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Rio Linda, CA
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The original subject of this thread was the 727. Keep in mind that the 904-based trans has two different width bands, 1.400" wide and 1.600" wide...the RE would have the wider band which extends further forward and makes it harder to remove/install in situ and, again, depends on the thickness of the band at the tang. (original might be thinner than replacement)
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1979104
12/30/15 01:32 AM
12/30/15 01:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR
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master
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Amarillo, Texas
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Looks like it might be a no-go in a 44re. After A LOT of finagling, I got the band halfway around. However, I cannot get it to go any further.
I think it is hitting something on the case. If I could somehow fish it around the drum it *might* be possible, but my patience for the day is gone.
Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: BBR]
#1979145
12/30/15 02:45 AM
12/30/15 02:45 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
Polarapete
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Graham, WA
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I once did an engine swap in a '68 Mustang and put a 351 Windsor in place of the 302. It had a C4 Automatic that we re-used (after rebuilding it) and one of the old parts we re-used was the 2nd gear band. It broke on the first test drive. Evidently it was a fairly common problem and I was able to remove the broken band and pass a new one around the drum and anchor it in place. That is the only transmission that I know of that would allow that, but I have never had to do that with any other.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car?
[Re: BBR]
#1979381
12/30/15 04:06 PM
12/30/15 04:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Looks like it might be a no-go in a 44re. After A LOT of finagling, I got the band halfway around. However, I cannot get it to go any further.
I think it is hitting something on the case. If I could somehow fish it around the drum it *might* be possible, but my patience for the day is gone. Did you try it further back ? You might be able to wrap a thin sheet of sheet metal over the lugs that stick up past the sun shell so you can slide the band over them ?
running up my post count some more .
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why dont you try to do the job right instead of hacking it? Is this a customers car? 
