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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1095547
10/17/11 12:08 PM
10/17/11 12:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
PorkyPig
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
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Quote:
Well I guess I'm going to be the lone dissenting voice. I use synthetic fluid exclusively in all my stuff.
Nope. I use a "hideously overpriced" synthetic Type F fluid because of the heat from running a 4200 converter on the street and driving to the track. When I had my trans freshened up after about 5000 miles and close to 200 passes, the rebuilder commented on how good everything inside looked.
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1095548
10/17/11 12:36 PM
10/17/11 12:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Quote:
Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.
As I said before, I use a qt of n/d 30w with the remainder type F. The reason for the oil is trans fluid is primarily a hydraulic oil with friction modifiers, and is a poor lubricant. I use type F because I feel that it has the best friction modifier package. As to the 40 year old tech, the material on a new set clutch discs and bands for a 904/727 shouldn't be the same as what is spec'ed for a new 6 speed auto, so why would you use fluid designed for the new lining material? 
I'm glad that works for you but you won't catch me pouring engine oil of any kind into any trans I own or build. Engine oil is not formulated to take the heat an automatic trans can produce. It starts to break down pretty fast.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: PorkyPig]
#1095549
10/17/11 12:47 PM
10/17/11 12:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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I guess in some ways, it is a question of which is a bigger band aid - having to run high temp fluid because you don't have the proper cooler, or having to install more cooler because you want to run cheaper fluid.
I can use type F because I have a properly sized cooler and enough air flow to keep my trans temps in order. I will say this - if I was running a car that I couldn't do that, say a resto where I couldn't add an external cooler, I'd consider running the synthetic stuff for the higher temp protection.
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1095550
10/17/11 12:56 PM
10/17/11 12:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.
As I said before, I use a qt of n/d 30w with the remainder type F. The reason for the oil is trans fluid is primarily a hydraulic oil with friction modifiers, and is a poor lubricant. I use type F because I feel that it has the best friction modifier package. As to the 40 year old tech, the material on a new set clutch discs and bands for a 904/727 shouldn't be the same as what is spec'ed for a new 6 speed auto, so why would you use fluid designed for the new lining material?
I'm glad that works for you but you won't catch me pouring engine oil of any kind into any trans I own or build. Engine oil is not formulated to take the heat an automatic trans can produce. It starts to break down pretty fast.
First, the lube reduces friction in the planetaries, reducing temps. Yes, I realize most of the heat is from the converter and front pump, which also benefit from better lubricity. And second, if your trans is running temps that cooks motor oil, it won't last anyways. I keep my trans temps in the 140-150 range, which is well into the range of motor oil.
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1095552
10/17/11 02:16 PM
10/17/11 02:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Another "scratch your head and ponder" - some people use hydraulic fluid, with a qt of tranny fluid added so you can see the fluid on the stick. My issue is the lack of friction modifiers, but I watched a buddy rip apart his race trans for inspection that looked spotless after using this fluid. 
I've heard this also but I'm not going to do it. There is a lot of engineering that went into ATF, I'm not throwing that away for hydraulic oil. As I've said before farm implement lubricants have no place in a race car.  But to each their own.
Oh and, I don't use a cooler.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1095554
10/17/11 02:31 PM
10/17/11 02:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
Moparnut426
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 12,008
Finally a HUSKER again
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Quote:
Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.
And I'll continue to use the cheap old stuff since
I still get 1.19 60' out of it... and my trans hasnt
been opened up in 4 years now
The real reason was Fords used to use paper clutched, and the friction modified fluid would make the clutches work rather than smoke.
And there is nothing wrong with it in a mopar. Makes the clutched hold better.
Kasey
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1095555
10/17/11 02:39 PM
10/17/11 02:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
The real reason was Fords used to use paper clutched, and the friction modified fluid would make the clutches work rather than smoke.
And there is nothing wrong with it in a mopar. Makes the clutched hold better.
Kasey
Isn't that what I said?
As far using it anything else, I won't. You can if you want to.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: I_bleed_MOPAR]
#1095557
10/17/11 07:32 PM
10/17/11 07:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 99
Louisville, KY
Allan_G
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 99
Louisville, KY
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While this doesn't exactly answer the OP's question, I'll throw this in since we're talking so much about synthetics. At a seminar in Indy several years ago, maybe '03?, I asked Rick Allison how he felt about synthetic ATF. Without naming brands or types, he generalized that synthetics were a good idea, EXCEPT for aluminum drums. For some reason, he said, he sees a lot more wear on these drums with synthetics. Again, this was several years ago, and formulations may have improved to where this is no longer an issue. For me, I wasn't running aluminum, so I sprung for some Redline synhetic when I had a new trans built. A little high on the price, sure, but I looked at it as insurance. Hope you don't need it but got it if you do. I also drove the Duster on the street a bunch back then, and when I last sent my TA 4200 in for inspection (from running in the old trans with conventional Type F), Paul Forte told me that it showed signs of getting fairly hot. I also installed a better cooler, but decided to get a little extra peace of mind with the Redline.  EDIT: BTW, don't get me wrong. I have nothing against conventional Type F and would have no problem using it in other situations.  -Allan
Last edited by Allan_G; 10/17/11 08:53 PM.
(FKA Racer Al back in 2000...)
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#1095558
10/17/11 08:20 PM
10/17/11 08:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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motor oil in the trans is used often in high horse power stuff as much as 50-50 but not really needed in lower hp cars like most of us guys
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
[Re: WHITEDART]
#1095559
10/17/11 08:36 PM
10/17/11 08:36 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I had a mild 440 in my 'Cuda and built a 727 for it using the Transtar kit with Raybestos clutches and a TransGo TF-2 shift kit. I also used the cheapest Wal-Mart sourced Type-F fluid I could get my hands on.
I beat the snot out of that transmission doing block long smokey burnouts with it and lots of time idling in traffic. I didn't cut it any slack.
I pulled apart the transmission about 8 years after building it since I sold the car to a friend and he was replacing the 440 with a stroked Hemi.
The clutches looked brand new and there was virtually no wear anywhere in the transmission. Even the "Raybestos" logo and the date code were clearly visible on the clutches!
Some times more expensive isn't always better..
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid?
#1095560
10/22/11 02:02 AM
10/22/11 02:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
formula S
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
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Quote:
I had a mild 440 in my 'Cuda and built a 727 for it using the Transtar kit with Raybestos clutches and a TransGo TF-2 shift kit. I also used the cheapest Wal-Mart sourced Type-F fluid I could get my hands on.
I beat the snot out of that transmission doing block long smokey burnouts with it and lots of time idling in traffic. I didn't cut it any slack.
I pulled apart the transmission about 8 years after building it since I sold the car to a friend and he was replacing the 440 with a stroked Hemi.
The clutches looked brand new and there was virtually no wear anywhere in the transmission. Even the "Raybestos" logo and the date code were clearly visible on the clutches!
Some times more expensive isn't always better..
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