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Street/strip 727- what fluid? #1095526
10/16/11 02:54 PM
10/16/11 02:54 PM
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Buford, GA
I_bleed_MOPAR Offline OP
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Should be firing up the Charger by next weekend and need fluid for the trans. Years back when I had my last 727, I ran B&M Trick Shift in it. An acquaintance at that time used to work for B&M and told me their fluid was just Type F w/ a couple of additives and blue coloring. Should I stick w/ Dexron, Type F, or go with an aftermarket fluid? Tried the Google search here- seems most times the question came up on the Q&A board and got a variety of answers. What says the Race board?


Tim


'71 Charger 383/727
'17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car wink )
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: I_bleed_MOPAR] #1095527
10/16/11 02:59 PM
10/16/11 02:59 PM
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Romeo MI
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Cheapo type F

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1095528
10/16/11 03:02 PM
10/16/11 03:02 PM
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sweden
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Quote:

Cheapo type F






Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1095529
10/16/11 03:07 PM
10/16/11 03:07 PM
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Ambridge, Pa.
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rickraw Online content
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Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1095530
10/16/11 03:07 PM
10/16/11 03:07 PM
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Michigan
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Quote:

Cheapo type F







'65 Belvedere
'68 GTX
'57 Dodge pickup
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Get-X] #1095531
10/16/11 03:16 PM
10/16/11 03:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
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Clinton Twp... north of Deetro...
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What they all said!

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: I_bleed_MOPAR] #1095532
10/16/11 03:46 PM
10/16/11 03:46 PM
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Jacksonville, FL
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Wally Mart Type F here..works great.


Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Chris2581] #1095533
10/16/11 04:05 PM
10/16/11 04:05 PM
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Buford, GA
I_bleed_MOPAR Offline OP
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Looks like the experts agree.
Thanks.


Tim


'71 Charger 383/727
'17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car wink )
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: I_bleed_MOPAR] #1095534
10/16/11 04:07 PM
10/16/11 04:07 PM
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Newport, Mi
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A quart of non detergent 30w and the remainder type F.


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Evil Spirit] #1095535
10/16/11 07:25 PM
10/16/11 07:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
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Walhalla, SC
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A quart of non detergent 30w and the remainder type F.

Been doing this for years with very good results

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: BlueDart] #1095536
10/16/11 10:04 PM
10/16/11 10:04 PM
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Well I guess I'm going to be the lone dissenting voice. I use synthetic fluid exclusively in all my stuff. It lasts longer, isn't affected by heat and will increase your stall speed about 300 rpm. Amsoil is probably as good as it gets but there are plenty of others including Mopar ATF+4. I use Hyundai SP III because I get it for free but it's just synthetic Dexron.

Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1095537
10/16/11 11:00 PM
10/16/11 11:00 PM
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Romeo MI
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Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.




And I'll continue to use the cheap old stuff since
I still get 1.19 60' out of it... and my trans hasnt
been opened up in 4 years now




Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1095538
10/16/11 11:04 PM
10/16/11 11:04 PM
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Anoka County, MN
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Quote:

Well I guess I'm going to be the lone dissenting voice. I use synthetic fluid exclusively in all my stuff. It lasts longer, isn't affected by heat and will increase your stall speed about 300 rpm. Amsoil is probably as good as it gets but there are plenty of others including Mopar ATF+4. I use Hyundai SP III because I get it for free but it's just synthetic Dexron.

Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.




A couple of things. You do realize, that Amzoil synthetic atf mimicks Type F.
And, 00232-19012 SP111 is spendy in quart bottles. Around $4.50 per qt. cost (I'm a Hyundai Parts Manager). If you get it free, kudos. I know I wouldn't buy it, with all the other choices.

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: I_bleed_MOPAR] #1095539
10/17/11 09:27 AM
10/17/11 09:27 AM
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Michigan
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ccarson Offline
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When I went to pick up my Transmission, before I walked out the door my Transmission Builder handed me a case of Motorcraft Type F, He just said 'this is what I use"

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Leigh] #1095540
10/17/11 10:04 AM
10/17/11 10:04 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Well I guess I'm going to be the lone dissenting voice. I use synthetic fluid exclusively in all my stuff. It lasts longer, isn't affected by heat and will increase your stall speed about 300 rpm. Amsoil is probably as good as it gets but there are plenty of others including Mopar ATF+4. I use Hyundai SP III because I get it for free but it's just synthetic Dexron.

Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.




A couple of things. You do realize, that Amzoil synthetic atf mimicks Type F.
And, 00232-19012 SP111 is spendy in quart bottles. Around $4.50 per qt. cost (I'm a Hyundai Parts Manager). If you get it free, kudos. I know I wouldn't buy it, with all the other choices.




Yeah I wouldn't buy it either but hey, the price is right.

Amsoil makes several different types of ATF, but I know it lasts a long time. The altered I drove has had Amsoil in it's PG for 5 years and it is still good. Many guys tell me that mineral Dexron lasts about 15 passes in their glides.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: I_bleed_MOPAR] #1095541
10/17/11 10:16 AM
10/17/11 10:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
formula S Offline
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San Diego
Type F at walmart is 1.27 a quart

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1095542
10/17/11 10:25 AM
10/17/11 10:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
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San Diego
formula S Offline
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Quote:

Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.


So its Perfect for a 50 year old design torqueflite. B&M fluid is type F

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: formula S] #1095543
10/17/11 10:56 AM
10/17/11 10:56 AM
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Posts: 205
upstate new york
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i use synthetic fluid atf+4.in both my cars.9sec duster and 11 sec street strip duster.i think it depends on how much you race it.i run 2 classes,14-15 runs in a day.later rounds back to back.i foot brake and it seems my launch rpm stays does not vary as much when the trans is hot with synthetic fluid .
i have over $1000 in my transmission $4.00 a quart is not that big of a deal.

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: 71cuda] #1095544
10/17/11 11:10 AM
10/17/11 11:10 AM
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Quote:

i use synthetic fluid atf+4.in both my cars.9sec duster and 11 sec street strip duster.i think it depends on how much you race it.i run 2 classes,14-15 runs in a day.later rounds back to back.i foot brake and it seems my launch rpm stays does not vary as much when the trans is hot with synthetic fluid .
i have over $1000 in my transmission $4.00 a quart is not that big of a deal.




Exactly, $1000 for a torque converter, $700 for a valve body, not to mention good clutches, steels and bands and you're going to cheap out on the fluid? Doesn't make sense.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1095545
10/17/11 11:50 AM
10/17/11 11:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
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Michigan
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Quote:

Quote:

i use synthetic fluid atf+4.in both my cars.9sec duster and 11 sec street strip duster.i think it depends on how much you race it.i run 2 classes,14-15 runs in a day.later rounds back to back.i foot brake and it seems my launch rpm stays does not vary as much when the trans is hot with synthetic fluid .
i have over $1000 in my transmission $4.00 a quart is not that big of a deal.




Exactly, $1000 for a torque converter, $700 for a valve body, not to mention good clutches, steels and bands and you're going to cheap out on the fluid? Doesn't make sense.




For me it's not "cheaping out" as much as it's using what's proven to be a reliable fluid for 727s for 30 years for me. I don't ever remember a trans failure related to using type f in a 727. I do however acknowledge the fact that dino oil viscosity will be less stable with temperature swings than synthetics so the stall speed argument has some merit.


'65 Belvedere
'68 GTX
'57 Dodge pickup
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1095546
10/17/11 11:58 AM
10/17/11 11:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
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Newport, Mi
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Quote:



Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.




As I said before, I use a qt of n/d 30w with the remainder type F. The reason for the oil is trans fluid is primarily a hydraulic oil with friction modifiers, and is a poor lubricant. I use type F because I feel that it has the best friction modifier package. As to the 40 year old tech, the material on a new set clutch discs and bands for a 904/727 shouldn't be the same as what is spec'ed for a new 6 speed auto, so why would you use fluid designed for the new lining material?


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1095547
10/17/11 12:08 PM
10/17/11 12:08 PM
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long time lurker, short time p...
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Quote:

Well I guess I'm going to be the lone dissenting voice. I use synthetic fluid exclusively in all my stuff.



Nope. I use a "hideously overpriced" synthetic Type F fluid because of the heat from running a 4200 converter on the street and driving to the track. When I had my trans freshened up after about 5000 miles and close to 200 passes, the rebuilder commented on how good everything inside looked.

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Evil Spirit] #1095548
10/17/11 12:36 PM
10/17/11 12:36 PM
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Quote:

Quote:



Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.




As I said before, I use a qt of n/d 30w with the remainder type F. The reason for the oil is trans fluid is primarily a hydraulic oil with friction modifiers, and is a poor lubricant. I use type F because I feel that it has the best friction modifier package. As to the 40 year old tech, the material on a new set clutch discs and bands for a 904/727 shouldn't be the same as what is spec'ed for a new 6 speed auto, so why would you use fluid designed for the new lining material?




I'm glad that works for you but you won't catch me pouring engine oil of any kind into any trans I own or build. Engine oil is not formulated to take the heat an automatic trans can produce. It starts to break down pretty fast.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: PorkyPig] #1095549
10/17/11 12:47 PM
10/17/11 12:47 PM
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Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit Offline
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I guess in some ways, it is a question of which is a bigger band aid - having to run high temp fluid because you don't have the proper cooler, or having to install more cooler because you want to run cheaper fluid.

I can use type F because I have a properly sized cooler and enough air flow to keep my trans temps in order. I will say this - if I was running a car that I couldn't do that, say a resto where I couldn't add an external cooler, I'd consider running the synthetic stuff for the higher temp protection.


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1095550
10/17/11 12:56 PM
10/17/11 12:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
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Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.




As I said before, I use a qt of n/d 30w with the remainder type F. The reason for the oil is trans fluid is primarily a hydraulic oil with friction modifiers, and is a poor lubricant. I use type F because I feel that it has the best friction modifier package. As to the 40 year old tech, the material on a new set clutch discs and bands for a 904/727 shouldn't be the same as what is spec'ed for a new 6 speed auto, so why would you use fluid designed for the new lining material?




I'm glad that works for you but you won't catch me pouring engine oil of any kind into any trans I own or build. Engine oil is not formulated to take the heat an automatic trans can produce. It starts to break down pretty fast.




First, the lube reduces friction in the planetaries, reducing temps. Yes, I realize most of the heat is from the converter and front pump, which also benefit from better lubricity. And second, if your trans is running temps that cooks motor oil, it won't last anyways. I keep my trans temps in the 140-150 range, which is well into the range of motor oil.


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Evil Spirit] #1095551
10/17/11 01:01 PM
10/17/11 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
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Newport, Mi
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Another "scratch your head and ponder" - some people use hydraulic fluid, with a qt of tranny fluid added so you can see the fluid on the stick. My issue is the lack of friction modifiers, but I watched a buddy rip apart his race trans for inspection that looked spotless after using this fluid.


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Evil Spirit] #1095552
10/17/11 02:16 PM
10/17/11 02:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
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Quote:

Another "scratch your head and ponder" - some people use hydraulic fluid, with a qt of tranny fluid added so you can see the fluid on the stick. My issue is the lack of friction modifiers, but I watched a buddy rip apart his race trans for inspection that looked spotless after using this fluid.




I've heard this also but I'm not going to do it. There is a lot of engineering that went into ATF, I'm not throwing that away for hydraulic oil. As I've said before farm implement lubricants have no place in a race car. But to each their own.

Oh and, I don't use a cooler.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1095553
10/17/11 02:29 PM
10/17/11 02:29 PM
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I use ATF+4 with Molley slip additive from Pat over at SMR tranny.

Been working well when I had an auto car.

I like the additive in overdrives mostly, saved the output shaft and output shaft bushing that is basiclly an aluminum housing without a bushing. Common failure spot for any 727 based OD mopar.

Kasey

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1095554
10/17/11 02:31 PM
10/17/11 02:31 PM
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Quote:

Type F is a friction modified fluid Ford had to use because their transmission clutch packs wouldn't hold. It's really not a viable fluid with todays materials, it's 40 year old technology that has past it's usefulness.




And I'll continue to use the cheap old stuff since
I still get 1.19 60' out of it... and my trans hasnt
been opened up in 4 years now

The real reason was Fords used to use paper clutched, and the friction modified fluid would make the clutches work rather than smoke.

And there is nothing wrong with it in a mopar. Makes the clutched hold better.

Kasey






Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Moparnut426] #1095555
10/17/11 02:39 PM
10/17/11 02:39 PM
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Quote:

The real reason was Fords used to use paper clutched, and the friction modified fluid would make the clutches work rather than smoke.

And there is nothing wrong with it in a mopar. Makes the clutched hold better.

Kasey










Isn't that what I said?

As far using it anything else, I won't. You can if you want to.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1095556
10/17/11 04:57 PM
10/17/11 04:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
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Finally a HUSKER again
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I guess you said their clutches wouldnt hold regular ATF, and didnt specify why, being made of paper, I just specified that part I guess.


Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: I_bleed_MOPAR] #1095557
10/17/11 07:32 PM
10/17/11 07:32 PM
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Louisville, KY
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While this doesn't exactly answer the OP's question, I'll throw this in since we're talking so much about synthetics. At a seminar in Indy several years ago, maybe '03?, I asked Rick Allison how he felt about synthetic ATF. Without naming brands or types, he generalized that synthetics were a good idea, EXCEPT for aluminum drums. For some reason, he said, he sees a lot more wear on these drums with synthetics. Again, this was several years ago, and formulations may have improved to where this is no longer an issue.

For me, I wasn't running aluminum, so I sprung for some Redline synhetic when I had a new trans built. A little high on the price, sure, but I looked at it as insurance. Hope you don't need it but got it if you do. I also drove the Duster on the street a bunch back then, and when I last sent my TA 4200 in for inspection (from running in the old trans with conventional Type F), Paul Forte told me that it showed signs of getting fairly hot. I also installed a better cooler, but decided to get a little extra peace of mind with the Redline.

EDIT: BTW, don't get me wrong. I have nothing against conventional Type F and would have no problem using it in other situations.
-Allan

Last edited by Allan_G; 10/17/11 08:53 PM.

(FKA Racer Al back in 2000...)
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: Guitar Jones] #1095558
10/17/11 08:20 PM
10/17/11 08:20 PM
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bean town ....Ca
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Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
motor oil in the trans is used often in high horse power stuff as much as 50-50 but not really needed in lower hp cars like most of us guys


In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's
5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? [Re: WHITEDART] #1095559
10/17/11 08:36 PM
10/17/11 08:36 PM

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I had a mild 440 in my 'Cuda and built a 727 for it using the Transtar kit with Raybestos clutches and a TransGo TF-2 shift kit. I also used the cheapest Wal-Mart sourced Type-F fluid I could get my hands on.

I beat the snot out of that transmission doing block long smokey burnouts with it and lots of time idling in traffic. I didn't cut it any slack.

I pulled apart the transmission about 8 years after building it since I sold the car to a friend and he was replacing the 440 with a stroked Hemi.

The clutches looked brand new and there was virtually no wear anywhere in the transmission. Even the "Raybestos" logo and the date code were clearly visible on the clutches!

Some times more expensive isn't always better..

Re: Street/strip 727- what fluid? #1095560
10/22/11 02:02 AM
10/22/11 02:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
formula S Offline
mopar
formula S  Offline
mopar

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 660
San Diego
Quote:

I had a mild 440 in my 'Cuda and built a 727 for it using the Transtar kit with Raybestos clutches and a TransGo TF-2 shift kit. I also used the cheapest Wal-Mart sourced Type-F fluid I could get my hands on.

I beat the snot out of that transmission doing block long smokey burnouts with it and lots of time idling in traffic. I didn't cut it any slack.

I pulled apart the transmission about 8 years after building it since I sold the car to a friend and he was replacing the 440 with a stroked Hemi.

The clutches looked brand new and there was virtually no wear anywhere in the transmission. Even the "Raybestos" logo and the date code were clearly visible on the clutches!

Some times more expensive isn't always better..



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