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Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
#1095195
10/15/11 11:18 PM
10/15/11 11:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 336
Creston, Iowa
340man4ever
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 336
Creston, Iowa
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Haven't seen the magazine yet- anyone know the specifics? Heads / Compression / Etc Sounds like a heck of an engine 
Curator at Adams County Speed Shop
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1095199
10/17/11 02:26 PM
10/17/11 02:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
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Good to see ya here IQ. Moparts could defintately use some of your experience and knowledge. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
2011 PHR\EMC Competitor
2012 PHR\EMC Competitor
2013 PHR\EMC Competitor
2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor
2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow
2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock
2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1095200
10/18/11 02:30 PM
10/18/11 02:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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Quote:
Hollis built a great engine. I mean we're talking 1.5 HP/CI with a flat tappet camshaft. 608HP from 406ci.
Can't wait to hear more. Been thinking about a 650 hp 400 bracket build over my 383... 
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: RemCharger]
#1095201
10/19/11 01:51 AM
10/19/11 01:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Tedder managed to make 647HP with his 406, but subsequently broke a rocker shaft.
Buck Hinkle made over 595HP with his 404ci/361, but, shattered a piston and cylinder wall into a million pieces doing it. It busted up the block so badly you could look into the exhaust port and see his camshaft and lifters.
Comp Cams forgot to turn the water on to our 906 headed 500ci stroker and burnt it to a crisp during the ring break in. It got hot enough to start burning the paint on the cylinder heads. We bandaged it back together and the following day managed to scratch out 730HP with leakdowns at 23%, 30%, 32% and 56%. It was impossible to tune the carburetor with all the exhaust gasses flowing back into the intake manifold through the warped intake valves and seats.
It was definitely an event to remember. I hope the write-ups in the magazine are as exciting as the dyno runs were.
Last edited by heyoldguy; 10/19/11 02:34 AM.
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1095202
10/19/11 04:51 AM
10/19/11 04:51 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
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I saw a video and they mentioned that Darren's motor was hitting 8500 RPM. The highest by far of all
home of the
Sox and Martin Hemi Duster
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: RAMM]
#1095204
10/19/11 11:52 AM
10/19/11 11:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
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The contest was tons of fun, and it was good to meet everyone. Our motor had made 703 at home then lost 60 hp over 2 pulls. We had tried to wean it off oil a few times looking for power that led to 3 seperate total failures above 8,000 rpm. We broke a rocker shaft at comp after making all our pulls playing with the motor, but power kept going away. What we found was that the rocker hold down holes in the heads were failing. When we pulled it down all the bolts were finger tight, and or stripped. We were so time stressed from the 3 previous failures it just went unnoticed. Our motor left the shop for Ohio still hot from the dyno, and we never took the valve covers off till it broke at comp after the competition pulls. Our final power at home was 635 before it left, so our dyno is reading conservative. Also I didn’t realize (through stupidity) that vacuum pumps were legal. Our nearest competitor used one (smart), and we did not (stupid). We’ll put one on our motor this time. I would think ,given the ring package and rpm a pump might be worth another 15-20hp
We are redoing it with all new parts, and documenting every step for Mopar Muscle.
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: cudadon]
#1095206
10/19/11 07:33 PM
10/19/11 07:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
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No e85 testing, it doesn't have enough cylinder pressure to help much. It'll be done just as it was, save fixing the rocker hold down holes, and adding a pump afterwards. I'm glad we skinned by at the contest, but it should have been 1.75 per inch, but that's just the way it goes.
The motor had been blown up 3 times figuring it out, so the walls, pistons and ring lands were rough to say the least. The crank was down to SBC size by then too. It's a good combo, and I think not many will guess what made it up. It was catalog mopar stuff as the contest required, but it's for sure different than Ross intended. Who knows, maybe they'll add that piston to a new mopar catagory.LOL
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1095207
10/20/11 12:09 PM
10/20/11 12:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,031
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,031
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Quote:
...Comp Cams forgot to turn the water on to our 906 headed 500ci stroker and burnt it to a crisp during the ring break in. It got hot enough to start burning the paint on the cylinder heads. We bandaged it back together and the following day managed to scratch out 730HP with leakdowns at 23%, 30%, 32% and 56%. It was impossible to tune the carburetor with all the exhaust gasses flowing back into the intake manifold through the warped intake valves and seats.
Nice!!!
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: scatpacktom]
#1095214
10/21/11 04:56 PM
10/21/11 04:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
340 out of 906s with no welding and no epoxy. Those are some strong numbers, about 40 better than anything I've heard of before. I would be intrested to see them tested side by side with a known factor.
I was thinking the same thing .
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: HP Engines]
#1095216
10/21/11 09:14 PM
10/21/11 09:14 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hollis leaves out the fact we were gaining 6HP per 100 RPM at 7300 so...we should have turned it more but..we had a choice..keep jetting and turning more or whip out our secret weapon ( that went untested until our last dyno pull) the single 4 tunnel ram---Rules limited us to one 4150 carb any production manifold--we had the engine built and ready to go when we saw a tunnel ram at the Nats and went ..HUUMMM....maybe the extra volume would be of help? We had 6 minutes of dyno time left out of 45 allowed for all runs and tuning and decided to throw a Hail Marry with our Tunnel Ram--looking back we should have just jetted and turned it harder but oh well...we had them scared for a minute! You should have seen the faces when we pulled that intake out of the box! It was a fun moment--Hoping for maybe 10 more HP we were surprised when it actually fell off on HP--It went so lean on the end cylinders it turned the headers cherry red as seen in the Mopar Muscle Mags videos--watch close and you will see them glow at the end of the pull. Hats off to 8500 RPM!!!--we planned to turn ours as hard as it would take to win but in the end decided we would rather have a unit to sell and take home in one piece --we had a ball--made some great new friends and really enjoyed the entire experience! And..We have a HOSS of a 406 for sale that is in EXCELLENT condition as shown after tear down--our piston skirts and bearings looked out of the box perfect! Ours was such a simple build ....NO tricks...just really perfect machine work by HP Engines, a great cam design by Hollis and our pals at Bullet Cams and a fantastic set of Edelbrocks hand ported by Hollis who missed more than one of his kids ball games while getting them JUST RIGHT! When all of the details come out it will be great reading---it was HP per CI with a $5500 cap on hard parts. You could read between the lines and spend a zillion dollars on coatings, vacuum pumps, etc etc but we decided to go with the spirit of the rules and do one like we would for a guy walking in the door. HATS OFF to Tedder for having the guts( and $$) to do what we planned on doing..Great effort. LeRoy and his gang were real MOPAR guys to the bone, we were really impressed with their spirit and sportsmanship! I have to say...everyone we met there was Top Notch in every way and it was an honor to be in that company! 
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: JohnRR]
#1095217
10/22/11 01:42 AM
10/22/11 01:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Quote:
Quote:
340 out of 906s with no welding and no epoxy. Those are some strong numbers, about 40 better than anything I've heard of before. I would be intrested to see them tested side by side with a known factor.
I was thinking the same thing .
Aaah, so to answer. Side by side testing.
--best--best---recent--recent--past----box----box-----box
--stock-stock--ported--ported--ported--stock--stock---stock
--452---906----452-----906-----906----RPM---Victor---EZ
--61-----63-----92-------91------83-----73-----68------66----.100"
-130----137----170-----165-----158----148----141-----127----.200"
-188----187----224-----219-----206----209----204-----181----.300"
-213----216----265-----272-----250----254----246-----232----.400"
-227----224----287-----299-----289----276----277-----272----.500"
-230----232----297-----325-----326----287----305-----299----.600"
--------236----302-----335-----342----291----324-----315----.700"
------------------------339-----346------------334------------.800"
All flows from the same bench.
On 03/27/08 @ 11:13 AM, a set of the 906 heads on a 9.5:1 compression, all motor 451ci, made 554.2 Rear Wheel HP & 494.4 Rear Wheel TQ at Westech Performance Group in Mira Loma, CA
And on 7/23/11 The same 906 heads we ran on the 11.9:1 compression 500ci contest engine, made 693.5HP/548.3TQ, on a less than perfectly tuned, 9.7:1 compression 451ci engine.
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: dthemi]
#1095220
10/22/11 03:38 AM
10/22/11 03:38 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
The contest was tons of fun, and it was good to meet everyone. Our motor had made 703 at home then lost 60 hp over 2 pulls. We had tried to wean it off oil a few times looking for power that led to 3 seperate total failures above 8,000 rpm. We broke a rocker shaft at comp after making all our pulls playing with the motor, but power kept going away. What we found was that the rocker hold down holes in the heads were failing. When we pulled it down all the bolts were finger tight, and or stripped. We were so time stressed from the 3 previous failures it just went unnoticed. Our motor left the shop for Ohio still hot from the dyno, and we never took the valve covers off till it broke at comp after the competition pulls. Our final power at home was 635 before it left, so our dyno is reading conservative. Also I didn’t realize (through stupidity) that vacuum pumps were legal. Our nearest competitor used one (smart), and we did not (stupid). We’ll put one on our motor this time. I would think ,given the ring package and rpm a pump might be worth another 15-20hp
We are redoing it with all new parts, and documenting every step for Mopar Muscle.
I used these "Time-Sert" Stainless steel 0.750" long inserts ($3/each) in my heads after the Heli-coil failed.
http://www.mechanicstoolsandbits.com/pro...bc8090e67ba31cc
"Kit" to install them (drill, tap, countersink, install tool with 5 0.5" long inserts $65.00
http://www.mechanicstoolsandbits.com/product_info.php/time-sert-inch-kit-part-0381-p-41
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1095221
10/22/11 09:28 AM
10/22/11 09:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
340 out of 906s with no welding and no epoxy. Those are some strong numbers, about 40 better than anything I've heard of before. I would be intrested to see them tested side by side with a known factor.
I was thinking the same thing .
Aaah, so to answer. Side by side testing.
--best--best---recent--recent--past----box----box-----box
--stock-stock--ported--ported--ported--stock--stock---stock
--452---906----452-----906-----906----RPM---Victor---EZ
--61-----63-----92-------91------83-----73-----68------66----.100"
-130----137----170-----165-----158----148----141-----127----.200"
-188----187----224-----219-----206----209----204-----181----.300"
-213----216----265-----272-----250----254----246-----232----.400"
-227----224----287-----299-----289----276----277-----272----.500"
-230----232----297-----325-----326----287----305-----299----.600"
--------236----302-----335-----342----291----324-----315----.700"
------------------------339-----346------------334------------.800"
All flows from the same bench.
On 03/27/08 @ 11:13 AM, a set of the 906 heads on a 9.5:1 compression, all motor 451ci, made 554.2 Rear Wheel HP & 494.4 Rear Wheel TQ at Westech Performance Group in Mira Loma, CA
And on 7/23/11 The same 906 heads we ran on the 11.9:1 compression 500ci contest engine, made 693.5HP/548.3TQ, on a less than perfectly tuned, 9.7:1 compression 451ci engine.
Did you have an .800 lift cam in that motor ?
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1095223
10/22/11 12:29 PM
10/22/11 12:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,048
The Great White North
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My favourite engine was the T&B'z Engines 426 ci 675hp entry!!! That one has the nicest sound of them all I thought. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
2011 PHR\EMC Competitor
2012 PHR\EMC Competitor
2013 PHR\EMC Competitor
2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor
2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow
2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock
2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1095225
10/22/11 02:54 PM
10/22/11 02:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Rocket Brand 93 octane. Minimum three qualifing pulls from 3,000-7,000 rpm, then minimum of three scored pulls from 3,000-7,000 rpm with no upper RPM limit. B or RB block. No cubic inch limit. Any cylinder head that uses stock offset rockers, no pushrod relocation. Single 4150 style carburetor. $5,500 retail limit on a specific list of hard parts. 10 HP penalty for every $100 over $5,500. Best HP/CI wins.
It looked like the only chance we might get to match the ported factory iron head directly against aluminum heads so we picked the 906 heads rather than the Edelbrock Performer RPM heads we used two years before. (349cfm on a 451ci and made 723 HP (93 octane, belt driven water pump and 600 rpm/sec, and 787 HP, electric water pump, 300 rpm/sec and 91 octane)
This year T&B'Z (Tom & Brenda Foley) and Darren Tedder (Prism) are seperated by .007 HP/CI before the money has been totaled.
Last edited by heyoldguy; 10/22/11 03:21 PM.
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: moderncylinder]
#1095227
10/22/11 03:24 PM
10/22/11 03:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Sorry, I confused the issue. Peak horsepower on the best scored run, no matter what RPM, is used to compute the score.
Forgot to answer the second part, Tom and Brenda appear to be in second as of this moment.
Darren-----------1.593 hp/ci
T&B'Z------------1.586
Hollis Page-------1.500
Buck Hinkle-------1.470 DNF/broke
LaRoy------------1.460
Bill's--------------1.380
Mid America------1.380
Last edited by heyoldguy; 10/22/11 04:42 PM.
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Re: Darren Tedder's 400 lo deck build- Mopar Muscle Contest
[Re: dthemi]
#1095230
10/23/11 09:29 AM
10/23/11 09:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
The contest was tons of fun, and it was good to meet everyone. Our motor had made 703 at home then lost 60 hp over 2 pulls. We had tried to wean it off oil a few times looking for power that led to 3 seperate total failures above 8,000 rpm. We broke a rocker shaft at comp after making all our pulls playing with the motor, but power kept going away. What we found was that the rocker hold down holes in the heads were failing. When we pulled it down all the bolts were finger tight, and or stripped. We were so time stressed from the 3 previous failures it just went unnoticed. Our motor left the shop for Ohio still hot from the dyno, and we never took the valve covers off till it broke at comp after the competition pulls. Our final power at home was 635 before it left, so our dyno is reading conservative. Also I didn’t realize (through stupidity) that vacuum pumps were legal. Our nearest competitor used one (smart), and we did not (stupid). We’ll put one on our motor this time. I would think ,given the ring package and rpm a pump might be worth another 15-20hp
We are redoing it with all new parts, and documenting every step for Mopar Muscle.
8500RPM on a (stock stroke?) 406...??? Oh i'm horny.
I wanna hear more about this build.
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