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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: Fuller]
#1092468
10/11/11 01:52 AM
10/11/11 01:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,037
Texas, Dallas
G_T
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,037
Texas, Dallas
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I think the 5 speed will be a significantly easier swap. The T-56 is going to require you to cut and make a custom trans cross member. It is significantly larger transmission. All that said - I'd go with a T-56... but i'm biased 
1970 Charger - V10, 6spd, Alterkation, Street Lynx 4 Link, Moser Dana 60, Wilwood 14" disks, Forgeline 18" Wheels (Rear:335's), ISIS Multiplexing Wiring http://www.v10mopar.com
2012 Charger SRT8
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: Fuller]
#1092470
10/11/11 02:12 AM
10/11/11 02:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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I went with a T56 in my car too (non-Mopar though  ) If you have to remake stuff anyways, I don't see why not have the advantage of the extra gear  And I just set the engine and trans angle the same it was as the donor car basically...
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1092473
10/11/11 09:34 AM
10/11/11 09:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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with EFI, I say go for it. but with a carb, I'd say try to keep your cruise RPM above 2000 rpm, or run a "stock" cam with no lope, that is all done power wise, by 5000.
my big block was running a cam that was 1800-6000 rpm power band. I had a TKO with the .64 OD and 3.23 gears with 28" tires.
5th gear was useless unless I was going 70mph or faster, at 65 my RPMs were down at 1700-1800, and the engine was lugging and surging. I tolerated it for a year or so because I knew the whole time that I was planning on 4.56 gears in the rear. and once I did, everything was great! tons of low end, and yet I could still cruise the highway at 2400 rpm, smooth as glass at 70mph.
the TKO will be smaller, and with the .64 OD you don't really need 6 gears. in a 1/4 mile run, you probably will NOT be shifting beyond 4th gear. I feel like you really only need 4 gears for pulling, then a 5th gear OD for cruising.
with that TKO I was running, the 4.56s, 28" tires, the top of 4th gear for me was up around 110-115 mph. I don't need more gears beyond that!
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1092474
10/11/11 09:49 AM
10/11/11 09:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
finadk
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
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I went with the T-56 for my 56 Dodge 408 Stroker. I will run it with the EZ-EFI setup. I did a lot of research and unless you can rebuild and upgrade a GM T-56 the brand new in the box Magnum T-56 for about $2800 or so is the way to go. (a GM core will be 800-1200, and you are looking at nnother 800+ for a good rebuild and upgrade). Yes they are BIG but the effort will be worth it. I also have a fairly comprehensive parts list with prices for what it will take to install one to a small block. I learned that I could buy a complete kit for only a few hundred more than I could cobble it together myself.  
Last edited by finadk; 10/11/11 09:55 AM.
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: Fuller]
#1092485
10/13/11 08:40 AM
10/13/11 08:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
finadk
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
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The driveshaft will have to be custom made. Mine came as part of the kit that included the bell, clutch, flywheel, hyd bearing, bolts, etc.
I believe the yoke is a std GM size.
Scott
1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed)
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
1976 Corvette
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: finadk]
#1092486
10/13/11 08:44 AM
10/13/11 08:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
finadk
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
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As far as the floor, you can make a LOT of room with an acetylene torch and an 8 lb hammer. I cleared about 2" at the bellhousing just by heating and stretching the metal.
Scott
1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed)
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
1976 Corvette
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: finadk]
#1092487
10/13/11 09:13 AM
10/13/11 09:13 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18
New York
Fuller
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18
New York
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Quote:
The driveshaft will have to be custom made. Mine came as part of the kit that included the bell, clutch, flywheel, hyd bearing, bolts, etc.
I believe the yoke is a std GM size.
Where did you buy your kit through? Just looking at a few options. I have had a qoute from keilser a long time ago but i put in another qoute for a 6 speed and haven't heard back from them yet.
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: Fuller]
#1092488
10/13/11 11:16 AM
10/13/11 11:16 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
Quote:
The driveshaft will have to be custom made. Mine came as part of the kit that included the bell, clutch, flywheel, hyd bearing, bolts, etc.
I believe the yoke is a std GM size.
Where did you buy your kit through? Just looking at a few options. I have had a qoute from keilser a long time ago but i put in another qoute for a 6 speed and haven't heard back from them yet.
That's typical for Keisler. apparently they are doing so well and have so much business, they don't need to bother with replying to requests for quotes, or calling folks back who are trying to place an order over the phone.
I've seen kits on Ebay for T-56 or TKOs for all kinds of GM vehicles. all you'd need to do is source a mopar bell and flywheel
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: Fuller]
#1092489
10/13/11 05:12 PM
10/13/11 05:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
finadk
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
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I am hesitant to recommend the place that I bought it from because I had a LOT of problems, careless errors that should not happen for a purchase of this size. HOWEVER that being said, this vendor went above beyond to make sure that everything was sorted out and that I was satisfied. I wont say anything bad about them, but I am not at a point where I would recommend them either.
I would be happy to talk off line if you email me at scott1956 (at) Gmail (dot)com
Where did you buy your kit through? Just looking at a few options. I have had a qoute from keilser a long time ago but i put in another qoute for a 6 speed and haven't heard back from them yet.
Scott
1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed)
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
1976 Corvette
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1092490
10/13/11 06:30 PM
10/13/11 06:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The driveshaft will have to be custom made. Mine came as part of the kit that included the bell, clutch, flywheel, hyd bearing, bolts, etc.
I believe the yoke is a std GM size.
Where did you buy your kit through? Just looking at a few options. I have had a qoute from keilser a long time ago but i put in another qoute for a 6 speed and haven't heard back from them yet.
That's typical for Keisler. apparently they are doing so well and have so much business, they don't need to bother with replying to requests for quotes, or calling folks back who are trying to place an order over the phone.
I've seen kits on Ebay for T-56 or TKOs for all kinds of GM vehicles. all you'd need to do is source a mopar bell and flywheel
I don't understand why they don't just have pricing on their website. They must get a lot of tire kickers emailing when listing a price would make things so much simpler.
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1092492
10/13/11 11:16 PM
10/13/11 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
finadk
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
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If you are going from an automatic It will be between $4700 - $5550 depending on how good you shop.
Scott
1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed)
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
1976 Corvette
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1092495
10/14/11 03:06 AM
10/14/11 03:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
I got lucky at Woodward!
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I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Yes in this case converting from a manual or auto would be close in cost. Everything gets replaced anyway.
What are you planning on doing for a bellhousing? I've got a lakewood bell and I think it would be a fairly straightforward job to have it redrilled for the t-56 pattern.
How is Quicktime? They have them available through Summit:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand...mp;autoview=SKU
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1092497
10/14/11 09:59 AM
10/14/11 09:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
finadk
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
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I used a Quicktime bell. There may be others but the T56 Magnum has a boss on the front that required a relief to the machined into the bell for clearance. I have a spare quicktime small block bell NIB that I might be ready to sell.
Scott
1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed)
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
1976 Corvette
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: finadk]
#1092498
10/14/11 10:11 AM
10/14/11 10:11 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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buddy of mine has a Dakota with a T-56 and is using a quicktime bell. it made for a very clean install on his truck.
but the truck has enough room to put 2 transmissions in the tunnel, so the T-56 fit with zero sheet metal modifications.
I picked up a quicktime bell for a TKO to small block build, but won't be using it for a looong time if ever and am currently trying to sell it as well. I have it listed on a few forums...to include this one. transmission section.
they are strong, sturdy, clean pieces. SFI approved too.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: Fuller]
#1092501
11/03/11 08:58 PM
11/03/11 08:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,349
warfordsburg, PA
dirt
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,349
warfordsburg, PA
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you dont want the tr6060 from the challenger or camaro because they are set up for an independant rear suspension. there is no slip yoke only a flange, also no speedo gear, it went in the rear axle, and the shifter is mounted along with the shift rods , on top of the trans, its a major pain to make work.
you end up needing a custom driveshaft that has a slip built into it , and an adapter to fit the flange on the back of the trans. then you still need to set up a sensor for the speedo. and the shifter also bolts to the floor.
the T56 magnum is the same trans but with a tail shaft and shifter like a regular T56
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: ahy]
#1092504
11/04/11 12:55 AM
11/04/11 12:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Some comments on 4 speed vs 5 speed vs 6 speed:
4 speed: Best as a single purpose transmission. It can be set up for drag (high numerical gear), street (medium numerical gear) or road race (low numerical gear)
5 Speed: Decent multi-purpose transmission. Drag with 1'st 4 gears or road with 5'th. The compromise is in 5'th with a stout engine. Is 5'th set up as an ideal 75 MPH cruise gear? If so it is probably too tall for max top speed. Or is it set up for top speed and too short for ideal cruise?
6 Speed: 1-4 can handle drag, 5'th for top speed and 6'th for ideal cruise. The ideal manual transmission? The main drawback is size and tunnel/mount mods.
The 5-sp's 5th gear isn't as numerically low as the 6sp's 6th gear. The 6sp T56's usually have a 6th gear in the .50-.57 range where the best you can get with a tremec 5sp is a .64. Doesn't sound like much, but at these ratios, a few points makes a big difference if you really want to gear it to the max.
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1092505
11/04/11 02:31 AM
11/04/11 02:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
finadk
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 299
East Brunswick, NJ
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One thing that I learned is that just like a cam or converter you need to choose the gear ratios as part of the entire driveline package considering rear gears, tire diameter ect. The trouble with the .50 6th gear is that you could end up in a RPM range that is too low for highway cruising. The .50 may be ok if you have 4.11 gears but depending on your cam may not be useable with 3.23's. The Tremec t56 magnum has a 2.66 1st with a .80 6th or 2.97 first gear with .63 6th. YOu need to figure out what is the lowest RPM your car can pull, and keep in ming that if the engine is lugging you may get worse fuel mileage than spinning it at higher RPM. Here is a link to some info on the Camaro 6 speeds that has more info. http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98387Here is some info I gathered on the gear ratios for the various 4, 5 ,and 6 speed options Trans 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th T56 Magnum TUET11009 2.66 1.70 1.30 1.00 0.80 0.64 T56 MagnumTUET11012 2.97 2.10 1.46 1.00 0.74 0.50 Keisler T45R (350/450HP) 3.37 1.99 1.33 1.00 0.67 TKO500 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 0.68 TKO600 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 0.64 TKO600 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 0.82 A833OD (75-87) 3.09 1.67 1.10 0.73 A833 (A body 64-65) 3.09 1.92 1.40 1.00 A833 71-72 18 spline) 2.44 1.77 1.34 1.00 A833 (TA 71-74)) 2.47 1.77 1.34 1.00 A833 (B/RB 64-70) 2.66 1.91 1.39 1.00 Passion Performance 2.64 1.92 1.40 1.00 0.70
Scott
1956 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer (408 Stroker, 4 Wheel Disc Brakes, Rack & Pinion, 6 speed)
2002 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab
1976 Corvette
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: finadk]
#1092507
11/04/11 03:47 AM
11/04/11 03:47 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
YOu need to figure out what is the lowest RPM your car can pull, and keep in ming that if the engine is lugging you may get worse fuel mileage than spinning it at higher RPM.
Yup, and I hope anyone smart enough to do their own 6-sp install would have the foresight to take into consideration how low of a rpm you can really run your engine before you start dropping below your efficiency zone. Camshaft and carb type or efi will make the difference in this case. I think you would need a 4.10 or numerically higher gear with a .5x 6th gear.
Also, I believe the OEM T-56's in the gto, cadiallac cts-v and the camarobirds had a .57 6th gear ratio.
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Re: T-56 or a 5 speed?
[Re: DennisH ]
#1092510
11/05/11 10:00 AM
11/05/11 10:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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the TKO I had with the .64OD was too much for me with 3.21 gears, and was just right with 4.56s. with a 6th gear OD in the .5x range I'd have to have run 4.88s!!
3.21s my 5th gear was lugging at 1800 rpm at 60mph and I had to get up to about 75mph to get the engine to smooth out.
4.56s was a smooth 2400 rpm at 75 mph. perfect!
that was with a 28" tire too, so a shorter tire will help out.
**Photobucket sucks**
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