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Re: 440 question [Re: HealthServices] #108860
08/22/08 11:02 PM
08/22/08 11:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,126
Home of the Bluegrass
MoparJunkie Offline OP
super stock
MoparJunkie  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,126
Home of the Bluegrass
I have access to av gas, but don't intend on solely useing that as the norm....


"It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar”
1971 Roadrunner FJ6 Sassy Grass 505"RB, 18 spline 4 speed, and Dana 60 with 3.54
2022 Hellcat Charger Widebody Redeye Jailbreak: Hellraisin with 8 speed auto



Re: 440 question [Re: BSB67] #108861
08/22/08 11:04 PM
08/22/08 11:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,126
Home of the Bluegrass
MoparJunkie Offline OP
super stock
MoparJunkie  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,126
Home of the Bluegrass
So if you deck to 0 then your quench will be the thickness of the head gasket???


"It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar”
1971 Roadrunner FJ6 Sassy Grass 505"RB, 18 spline 4 speed, and Dana 60 with 3.54
2022 Hellcat Charger Widebody Redeye Jailbreak: Hellraisin with 8 speed auto



Re: 440 question [Re: MoparJunkie] #108862
08/22/08 11:04 PM
08/22/08 11:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER Offline
master
R70RUNNER  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
Quote:

Be more specific on squish.....decking the block? or milling heads?




Here is a pretty good read... http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/motor/38.html

I prefer squish, quench is the same thing..

You will need to deck the block to zero deck, or .005 in the hole is common. The 915's are closed chambered heads, CCH, makes it easier to obtain squish. It can be done with open chambers but much harder to do, and pop up, or quench dome pistons are going to be a necessity

Have a read


Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk


1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD

R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
Re: 440 question [Re: HealthServices] #108863
08/22/08 11:08 PM
08/22/08 11:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices Offline
Why would you even post that?
HealthServices  Offline
Why would you even post that?

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
Oh be careful with big cam high compression in order to run that on poop gas you have to do some serios research for the street. Not a lot of fun if you get the combo off by just a little. I had one like that.

The Stealth heads look stock when painted if you want the stock look and want a relativey inexpensive head.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: 440 question [Re: HealthServices] #108864
08/22/08 11:18 PM
08/22/08 11:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Quench means the top of the piston comes within .035-.050 of the head at TDC, once you figure in head gasket thickness and how far down in the hole the piston sits. There's really two kinds of quench. If you run a closed chamber head like a rebuilt/ported 915 or an edelbrock RPM / 440source stealth head and a flat top piston with a compression height of at least 2.060(KB237 would be a perfect piston for your build and cheap if you don't plan to run nitrous). When the piston gets really close to the head you get what's called quench. Having quench doesn't do much for producing more power, but it does allow you to run a higher compression ratio at the same amount of octane. Also a quench setup requires less ignition timing to get the job done.

The other type of quench setup is to run an open chamber head like a 906, 452, 346, etc any of the 1968+ factory big block heads with what they call a quench dome piston. With this style, the piston usually has a shorter compression height like ~2.03 or so, but has a tall 'dome' they call it. It doesn't really look like a dome to me, but you'll see it's a smaller raised area of the piston. The dome has to be machined to match up to the inside of your open chambered head. The result is with the dome and good machining, when the piston is at TDC, you get a similar combustion chamber shape as a closed chamber head/flat top piston combo, because that huge dome is taking up half of the space in the chamber. Needless to say, that setup requires some additional time spent measuring the dome, piston depth and cylinder head chambers and machining than the closed chamber style. With the closed chamber style all you have to do is mill the block's deck until the piston sits flush with the top of the deck, ie 0 down in the hole, then run a head gasket of about a .040 or so thickness and you're golden.

You don't have to run a quench setup, but it is beneficial, especially on a pump gas motor.

For the $ it takes to have stock cast iron heads, rebuilt, ported and bigger valves installed, you can almost buy a set of stock looking 440source aluminum heads, or a set of eddy rpm heads if you don't mind the aftermarket look. They will be closed chamber and flow as well or better than your ported stockers, plus the aluminum allows for more compression on pump gas. A 10.5:1 pump gas aluminum headed quench built 440 that runs on pump gas is easy. A cast iron headed non-quench motor will need to probably be around 9.5:1 to be pump gas friendly with a mild cam.

Also don't forget the 50lb weight advantage of the alum heads versus the cast irons.

Re: 440 question [Re: MoparJunkie] #108865
08/22/08 11:28 PM
08/22/08 11:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices Offline
Why would you even post that?
HealthServices  Offline
Why would you even post that?

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
Quote:

I have access to av gas, but don't intend on solely useing that as the norm....




You can get away with a mix on av gas and pump but it gets tiring too.

BTDT

Please be aware your jetting changes slightly when using different types of gases as well.

Detonation will kill a motor really quick!


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: 440 question [Re: HealthServices] #108866
08/23/08 07:31 AM
08/23/08 07:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,126
Home of the Bluegrass
MoparJunkie Offline OP
super stock
MoparJunkie  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,126
Home of the Bluegrass
Thanks guys!


"It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar”
1971 Roadrunner FJ6 Sassy Grass 505"RB, 18 spline 4 speed, and Dana 60 with 3.54
2022 Hellcat Charger Widebody Redeye Jailbreak: Hellraisin with 8 speed auto



Re: 440 question [Re: MoparJunkie] #108867
08/23/08 09:38 AM
08/23/08 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Hewre's my friends build 67GTX 6 pack ran 11.80's all day driven to and from the track. .030 over 440 10:1 TRW flat tops...ported (very ported) 915's, 509 cam (see and people think I hate on them), Aluminum 6 pack intake, Super comp headers, Mopar ingnition, 727 w/ shift kit an 5.0 leaver, 8.75 w/ 4.10's. Car ran great. Nothing fancy about the build but he did have some money in the heads, but back then there wasn't E-heads or the like. I'd think you could do the same except run a better "street" cam and you'll be way in the 12's. Maybe the mopar solid 528.

Re: 440 question [Re: Mr.Yuck] #108868
08/23/08 10:42 AM
08/23/08 10:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
B
BDS871Cuda Offline
top fuel
BDS871Cuda  Offline
top fuel
B

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
Quote:

Hewre's my friends build 67GTX 6 pack ran 11.80's all day driven to and from the track. .030 over 440 10:1 TRW flat tops...ported (very ported) 915's, 509 cam (see and people think I hate on them), Aluminum 6 pack intake, Super comp headers, Mopar ingnition, 727 w/ shift kit an 5.0 leaver, 8.75 w/ 4.10's. Car ran great. Nothing fancy about the build but he did have some money in the heads, but back then there wasn't E-heads or the like. I'd think you could do the same except run a better "street" cam and you'll be way in the 12's. Maybe the mopar solid 528.






Sounds right, 11.8s is a good number with that combo.

I had 452 heads ported on a 440 with an Ultradyne
.591-.613 cam. Demon 825 race and MSD. The 4000
lbs Sport Fury ran 11.16
If I only shot a little juice at it, bam, in the
10s. It was a daily driver, but the 4.88 gear was
a B!TCH on the highway even with 32 inch tires.

I have 3.08s in the new ride with a 32 inch tire.
It won't run 11s, but who cares, it will run
over 80 mph at under 3000 rpm.


Snap your neck, mega G-force launch, is all I want!
Re: 440 question [Re: MoparJunkie] #108869
08/23/08 12:53 PM
08/23/08 12:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

Tight quench meaning deck the block mill the heads????


probably deck the block,the right pistons & gasket to get .035-.040 piston to head THATS CRITICAL & you need closed chamber heads. I remember a build from WAY back. 73 duster 727,4.56 dana. 440 with 6pack pistons 2355, .030 ~9.5-1 cr 906 heads ported with the DC porting templates 2.14 & 1.81. holley street dominator intake 750 4779? holley DP carb pro parts headers dont remember the converter, 509/292 MP cam. ran mid tens & was(somewhat) streetable. 511 HP on the dyno!


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 question [Re: Mr.Yuck] #108870
08/23/08 03:16 PM
08/23/08 03:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
Too Many Posts
383man  Offline
Too Many Posts
3

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
Quote:

Hewre's my friends build 67GTX 6 pack ran 11.80's all day driven to and from the track. .030 over 440 10:1 TRW flat tops...ported (very ported) 915's, 509 cam (see and people think I hate on them), Aluminum 6 pack intake, Super comp headers, Mopar ingnition, 727 w/ shift kit an 5.0 leaver, 8.75 w/ 4.10's. Car ran great. Nothing fancy about the build but he did have some money in the heads, but back then there wasn't E-heads or the like. I'd think you could do the same except run a better "street" cam and you'll be way in the 12's. Maybe the mopar solid 528.




Thats very close to my combo. But I use 906 heads and KB quench pad pistons to get quench in my 440. It also is 10.0 comp and I use the MP .557 cam with 4.30's and a 29" tire. I run the Holley SD intake with an 850 DP. 11.50's so far in my 63 Sport Fury and I drive it everywhere. Ron

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