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Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? #1081128
09/23/11 08:18 PM
09/23/11 08:18 PM
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fury4speed Offline OP
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My Car wa srunning great then I noticed the aAMP gauge in the discharge area , the car started missing then died , I installed anew battery just to get it Home and nothing , the alternator (big wire held on by a nut) the back of the alternator stud / bolt is really loose and was smoking (the wire is OK) when the Engine died , my question , does the power have to go through the alternator to run? if I buy a new alternator should it start? why wont it turn ove rwith a new battery? somewhere the connection is broken right? where do I start looking? there was never any smoke or smell coming from the dash area , the AMP gauge is now in the center nut nothing moves when the key is on , the fueable links by the fender mounted relay look good , this is a 1968 Plymouth Fury , thanks again.

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081129
09/23/11 08:45 PM
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vashon island washington
hunterstroble Offline
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I would look at the amp gauge in the dash. If the connectors aernt fried you can pull one of the nuts off the studs and just put the two terminals togeather for testing. However It sounds like you may need an alternator after that.


1969 Dodge dart 500 stroker 1973 Dodge Challenger 440
Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: hunterstroble] #1081130
09/23/11 08:59 PM
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fury4speed Offline OP
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So replacing the alternator isnt the problem? the power does not go through it to start the Car?

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081131
09/23/11 09:19 PM
09/23/11 09:19 PM
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vashon island washington
hunterstroble Offline
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It goes through your amp gauge to the alternator. If the amp gauge is an open circut it won't start. Just jump the amp gauge wires. But with smoke coming out of the alt. terminal I don't know how much your alternator liked it. Jumping the amp gauge is an effective no cost way of diagnosis.


1969 Dodge dart 500 stroker 1973 Dodge Challenger 440
Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: hunterstroble] #1081132
09/23/11 09:38 PM
09/23/11 09:38 PM
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vashon island washington
hunterstroble Offline
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I'm not 100% sure on your car, but 99% of the time a crank no start on a mopar is a burnt amp gauge. I could be sending you down the wrong direction though.


1969 Dodge dart 500 stroker 1973 Dodge Challenger 440
Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: hunterstroble] #1081133
09/24/11 12:23 AM
09/24/11 12:23 AM
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lets start again.
with the new battery in, can you get head lights?
or dash lights, or interior lights?
if the answer is no, then you need to back track your wiring into the car and see if that fusible link is actually burned out but looks good.
If that is truly good(using a multi meter), then start checking power into the car.
The amp meter is a good place to look and see if you have power on one side but not the other, then as said above, just bypass it. disconnect the battery, take the nuts off and move one set of wires to the other side and bolt it back up again. check again for power.

IF you do have head lights and dash lights but it won't start, see if you have power to the ballast resistor and then try to jump the starter relay with the key in the run position.

You could try that even if you don't have dash lights, but you won't have power to the ballast, but it will try to turn over the starter, and you would know it is just something stopping power from getting into the passenger compartment.

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081134
09/24/11 01:28 AM
09/24/11 01:28 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

the AMP gauge is now in the center nut nothing moves when the key is on


The ammeter is vertical & doesn't move a hair when you turn the key to "on"? Eng off: (1) See if the alt black large main feed wire to the bulkhead has near batt voltage where it enters the firewall bulkhead and (2) see if the fusible link has batt voltage where it enters the bulkhead. if (2) is dead check the FL for continuity. Fix (2) and see if the yellow "sol" wire at the starter relay has fire when the key turned to start. Then as said go under the dash & start with the ammeter & see if both sides are hot. I'd guess FL link fried internally


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Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1081135
09/24/11 10:04 AM
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fury4speed Offline OP
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Battery connected no AMP gauge movement , no dash lights , no headlights , fuseble link? ar ethe fuseable links on / connected to the relay that is monted on the fenderwell? or are there other F/L's to check? thanks.

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081136
09/24/11 10:38 AM
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Quote:

fuseble link? ar ethe fuseable links on / connected to the relay that is monted on the fenderwell?


yes just that one. Useally has a thick rubbery "tag" on it. See if you have power between the downstream side of it and the firewall bulkhead.


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Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1081137
09/24/11 12:21 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

fuseble link? ar ethe fuseable links on / connected to the relay that is monted on the fenderwell?


yes just that one. Useally has a thick rubbery "tag" on it. See if you have power between the downstream side of it and the firewall bulkhead.




Is there a place that sells factory style repros of the fusible link with that tag on it? When mine went out, I just replaced it with a piece of fusible link I picked up in a roll from autozone. Would kind of like to have a factory style replacement to put in there.



1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: roe] #1081138
09/24/11 02:03 PM
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Quote:

Is there a place that sells factory style repros of the fusible link with that tag on it?


Roe I am not sure as I have never had one go out on me so I've never had to search for one. I would grab an OE one from a JY or buy one from someone here that way it'd be in your mailbox which'd save you alot of time


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Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081139
09/24/11 06:08 PM
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look here
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1968/68FuryB.JPG

J in the bulkhead.see if you have any power getting there.

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: Andrewh] #1081140
09/25/11 12:21 AM
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fury4speed Offline OP
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The fuseable link was burnt out , replaced that and the starts fine and all lights come on , but it does not charge , new alt , new voltage regulaor , what else should I check? thanks again.

AMP gauge is on discharge a bit , as you rev the Engine the needle moves a bit but very a small movement.

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081141
09/25/11 12:31 AM
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With key "on" need switched 12V to the blue wire to the "ign" side of the voltage reg (OE 68 "box" type I'm assuming). Need continuity in the green wire from the "fld" terminal on the other side of the "box" to the alt field terminal.


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Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1081142
09/25/11 12:40 AM
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fury4speed Offline OP
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Quote:

With key "on" need switched 12V to the blue wire to the "ign" side of the voltage reg (OE 68 "box" type I'm assuming). Need continuity in the green wire from the "fld" terminal on the other side of the "box" to the alt field terminal.




if no power to terminals then what to check?

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081143
09/25/11 12:45 AM
09/25/11 12:45 AM
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go back upstream where the blue wire comes out of the bulkhead & seperate the 2 halves & see if the firewall half has fire and the brass male/female terminals in both halves are not burnt/corroded. If good there that blue wire circuit goes inside to the ign1 (run) terminal on the ign switch


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Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1081144
09/25/11 01:04 PM
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fury4speed Offline OP
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Could the AMP Meter still be bad? it moves when you put the key on and whan you put the lights on , i just want to eliminate the AMP gauge , since it move sit is working right? , the Alternator charges on the machine and test fine (I wanted to eliminate too) all wires I have test and connections are clean and seem to have complete curcuits , I was wondering if I can drive the car 25 miles on just the battery with no lights on and the alt not charging , the battery has a full charge?

With the key on I get power to the big alt wire (12.66 volts) on the voltage reg wire I get a bit less than 12 volts , I cleaned the connections , still no charging.

Last edited by fury4speed; 09/25/11 01:38 PM.
Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081145
09/25/11 02:12 PM
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Would a TWO 2 Field alt not charge? if both wires are not hooked up? I had a ONE wire alt on the car now I have a two wire? could that be the problem?

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081146
09/25/11 02:18 PM
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Your ammeter is moving so it is good. Yes you can drive the car 25 miles with no charging just slow charge it up on the battery charger later when you can. It's not the best for a battery but not a 1 time deal breaker. Your alt is good. there's a reg or reg ground or field circuit (blue/green wire) problem. The simplest/best tool other than a VOM is some made up jumper wires with alligator clips on each end. Take off all field wires from the reg and alt and jump from the batt positive post to the "ign" reg terminal and from the reg "fld" terminal to the alt male field terminal & with a good alt and good reg & reg grounded it WILL charge. then figure out which of the wires you took off has an open (or is wired wrong) EDIT we posted at the same (approximate) time. You have the original 68 type "box" reg? and a 2 field terminal alt? then yes ground the 2nd alt field terminal (pick either one) to ground and the green wire to the other field terminal

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/25/11 02:23 PM.

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Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081147
09/25/11 02:23 PM
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Quote:

Would a TWO 2 Field alt not charge? if both wires are not hooked up? I had a ONE wire alt on the car now I have a two wire? could that be the problem?




If you have a 2 field wire alt, ie square back, and a 1 field charging system, then yes, you will not charge with that configuration.

you can pick either field on the alt and ground it, and it should start charging.
IF you have power to the VR and power going to the other field when the key is in run.

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: Andrewh] #1081148
09/25/11 02:32 PM
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fury4speed Offline OP
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Thanks you Guys , I guess I got the wrong ALT and yes it is a square back two field and my orgiinal one is a one field.

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081149
09/25/11 04:04 PM
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it for sure puts out more amps than a 1 field terminal type so if your pulley lines up I'd keep it and just ground the other male terminal & you're set


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Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1081150
09/25/11 05:09 PM
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It's working now , I switched it to a 1 wire field a swas stock and it works fine , thanks for all you help. So did the bad alternator cause the fuseable link to fry in the first place? I am hesitant about driving it , as the Engine was running all wires in question were not warm or hot so I think it is fixed , your thoughts , thanks.

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081151
09/25/11 05:44 PM
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Quote:

so I think it is fixed , your thoughts , thanks.


Yeah I think you're set. FL's fry from too much current thru it & the only prob was the alt and the loose "batt" wire on the alt correct? Which the non op alt was causing the excessive "discharge" flow from the battery in thru the FL EDIT Slow charge (best way) the battery up on a charger not in the vehicle if possible then strive to keep the ammeter needle fairly close to 12 o'clock

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/25/11 05:59 PM.

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Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1081152
09/25/11 10:54 PM
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The big wire / nut to the alt was tight on the stud but the stud into the alt was really loose , I took the alt apart and everything looks fine except the round deal the stud is attatched too.

Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: fury4speed] #1081153
09/25/11 11:18 PM
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Actually I've never been inside one ex to split the case to press on a diff pulley & I never paid any attention to the insides so not sure how the stud is connected but it for sure would need to be securely connected/good continuity but if it's not burnt and tightening it secures it to what it contacts & visually everything looks kosher I'd say all good


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Re: Car died and no start , amp gauge was on discharge ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1081154
09/25/11 11:45 PM
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fury4speed Offline OP
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No it is really burned up , so I guess after things got really hot the f/l took the hit.

I drove it 25 miles and no problem the AMP gauge is very steady at cruise and so far so good.

Thanks again you guys for all your help.

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