Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? * UPDATE*
[Re: mopar_man]
#1077474
10/02/11 05:31 PM
10/02/11 05:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,655 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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Quote:
monc, several posts ago i asked you to jump the wiring harness (pos on battery to pos on coil ) Did it start then when you turned the key to start position ?
NO it did not.
If it didn't , leave the key in the run position and try cranking it at the starting motor (big terminal on starter jumped to small terminal )
Ok I will try that now.
if it starts then , I still say the ecm is not powered when the key is in start position .
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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? * UPDATE*
[Re: MONC]
#1077477
10/02/11 05:55 PM
10/02/11 05:55 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
I already replaced the ignition switch.
Question- With the key in the run position, how does the car start when you jump the starter relay?
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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? * UPDATE*
[Re: roe]
#1077479
10/02/11 06:11 PM
10/02/11 06:11 PM
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Ok I know this is going to be confusing and I know I said it didn't start just now when I had key in the run position and jumped it at the start relay, BUT ...
I figured the car was cold and the battery weak from cranking so, I jumped the battery, started the car as I had done before ( when I released the key from the start position).
Then, I let the car idle for about 15 minutes to let the battery charge and the car warm up.
THEN I tried the test again. Put the key in the RUN position , then jumped it from the relay , and it STARTED .
So what does this mean? It starts in RUN position now with the key, what does it matter that I started the car in the RUN position by jumping it at the relay?
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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? * UPDATE*
[Re: MONC]
#1077480
10/02/11 06:17 PM
10/02/11 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847 Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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Quote:
Put the key in the RUN position , then jumped it from the relay , and it STARTED .
So what does this mean? It starts in RUN position now with the key, what does it matter that I started the car in the RUN position by jumping it at the relay?
It means the ECU or coil is not getting enough voltage while the key is in the crank position. Could be a bad ignition switch or poor connection at the bulkhead connector.
You need to check both the coil+ terminal and the voltage feed to the ECU during cranking to see what the drop is. That is how I found out our power wagon had a bad ignition switch as the ECU voltage would drop below 9 volts during cranking.
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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? * UPDATE*
[Re: MONC]
#1077482
10/02/11 09:45 PM
10/02/11 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,664 Newfoundland
mopar_man
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So what does this mean? It starts in RUN position now with the key, what does it matter that I started the car in the RUN position by jumping it at the relay? It means that everything is fine with the wiring until your key goes to the start position. So, you got new ignition switch so we'll assume its working ok but somewhere from the ignition switch on out through the wiring harness there is an open circuit thats not powering up the coil , or the ecm and it could be the bulkhead connector. if its running good and starting fine in run position, it should be just a matter of elimination to find your problem. wish i was closer , prolly fine the trouble pretty quick .
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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? * UPDATE*
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1077484
10/03/11 12:39 AM
10/03/11 12:39 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Quote:
You mentioned the ECU is mounted under the dash? Could it be getting power from the ACC side of the fuseblock, and not from the run side of the ballast resistor as is the normal wiring configuration?
Try this test to verify if the ECU is wired to the ACC power.
#1 - disconnect the starter relay spade connector so the engine/starter will not spin when putting the key in the "start" position. #2 - put key in the ACC position. #3 - Jumper a wire from the battery positive to the ignition coil "+" terminal. #4 - use a starter switch or wire from the starter relay spade connection to the positive post of the relay to start the car.
I think the car will now start?
With the engine running, and the starter wire still disconnected from the starter relay so the starter will not engage, turn the key to the "start" position and hold it there. If the engine dies, you just verified the ECU is on the ACC circuit, not the RUN circuit.
When the key is in the "run/on" position you are powering the Accessory circuit (radio, ect), and the engine compartment run circuit (Normally power to the ECU, alt field, voltage regulator, ballast resistor and carb choke heater if equiped.)
Because the ECU was moved to a non-stock location, it may be wired to the wrong power circuit.
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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? * UPDATE*
[Re: MONC]
#1077486
10/03/11 11:51 AM
10/03/11 11:51 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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That makes me think it is still grounding issues or a bad/marginal ballast resistor.
Putting a jumper wire from the battery positive to the ignition coil "+" terminal is the same as having the ignition key in the start position. This bypasses all the dash wiring. You could totally disconnect the bulkhead connector and the engine should start. The issue with the ballast resistor is if it may be partly burnt and has higher resistance than normal. In the start position, power starting at the coil, power must run back through the ballast resistor to supply power to the ECU, alternator, and voltage regulator. With a jumper wire across the ballast resistor, and the jumper from battery to ignition coil everything should be getting full power. Now everything is eliminated from the circuit equation except the grounding paths. The ECU grounds itself through the case to the body (if it has a good connection), and the starter grounds itself through the engine block. I don't know if you are using a battery ground wire that has a lead to ground the body, or ground wires from the engine block to the body?
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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? * UPDATE*
[Re: MONC]
#1077488
10/03/11 03:45 PM
10/03/11 03:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,970 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
I've done that already ( see previous posts of voltages found), and replaced the ignition switch.
Guess I'll go back to the bulkhead connector...again....
Just because you replaced the ignition switch does not mean it is not the problem. Why did you replace the switch to begin with?
You have a 2 prong ballast , if it was bad the car wouldn't run when the key is released , you have the opposite problem.
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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? * UPDATE*
[Re: JohnRR]
#1077491
10/05/11 02:24 PM
10/05/11 02:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,655 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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Quote:
Quote:
I've done that already ( see previous posts of voltages found), and replaced the ignition switch.
Guess I'll go back to the bulkhead connector...again....
Just because you replaced the ignition switch does not mean it is not the problem. Why did you replace the switch to begin with?
I replaced the switch because I thought it might be the problem. The same reason I replaced the coil, the ballast resistor, the ECU, the starter relay, cap and rotor, plugs, and cleaned the bulkhead connections and checked the grounds.
Obviously I've missed something.
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