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If your thinking of going turbo..... #1075709
09/15/11 08:41 PM
09/15/11 08:41 PM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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I retract all my previous statements about thinking twice about going turbo. I've got my car up and running now and most of the things that I read about blowthru setups being hard to tune and cast pistons exploding so far haven't been true(knock on wood). I don't have a wideband and I've set my timing by ear and, I'm on pumpgas, the rumors about a boosted motor haven't been true for me. With that being said I will have a wideband and properley set my timing before I go to the track and try to get some numbers, but so far on the street with 7lbs looking at the plugs and setting the fuel pressure is all I've done. I learned alot along the way I figured I would pass on to those building a turbo SB, but take my words with a grain of salt because I am not a professional....

*Stock magnum manifolds are by far the easiest route, I tried headers and have one on the drivers side but run a manifold on the pass. side. If I did it over I would have used them on both.

*My ebay GT45 turbo was nice and so far with about 50miles on it has shown zero signs of trouble. The 1.05 hotside is alittle big for a stock 318 it spools late but comes in hard

*Air-to-air intercoolers take up alot of space. If I do it over again it would be air to water or meth. injection.

*Ebay wastegates and BOV don't seem to be that bad. Mine are chinese knockoffs and seem to function ok although only time will tell

*I run a walbro 190 pump and a mallory 4309 regulator. Both are cheap and seem to be ok for my application. I also love that I can't hear the walbro as opposed to my old blue pump.

*My cheapo stall converter was supposed to be a 2200-2800. It pulls at about 2400 but is way too tight for my car and gear. If I did it over I would try to get something in the 2800-3200 range maybe more. I'm going to a glide anyway because the 904 is already slipping and its rebuilt

*Don't drill out your PCVR's until you get it on the car and see how it runs...although this has probably helped me from going lean and killing my motor already.

*Stock ignition has been fine so far but I will be going to an MSD BTM when I can afford it

Just some things I was thinking about and thought I would share. I'm new to boost so this has been a learning curve but it's always good to share real life experience

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075710
09/15/11 10:41 PM
09/15/11 10:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 475
HEMPSTEAD TX
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CUUDAK Offline
mopar
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HEMPSTEAD TX
UHHH!
Video???


SRT8 CHARGER "Four door bore" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: CUUDAK] #1075711
09/15/11 11:06 PM
09/15/11 11:06 PM
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Posts: 928
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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SLOW67  Offline OP
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I don't have a video camera lol I do have some pics off my blackberry I am technology limited it cost too much

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075712
09/15/11 11:10 PM
09/15/11 11:10 PM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075713
09/15/11 11:12 PM
09/15/11 11:12 PM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075714
09/15/11 11:14 PM
09/15/11 11:14 PM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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This car was rough when I got it so I didn't mind cutting holes where I needed them

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075715
09/16/11 12:01 AM
09/16/11 12:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 350
Grande Prairie, Alberta, Can.
CW25 Offline
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Grande Prairie, Alberta, Can.
You will be very glad you stayed with turbo in the long tun. When you start it doesn't seem worth it for the HP... Now I went to the dyno at 8 psi and dynoed 525 RWHP and 600 RWTQ. Just for the hell of it I turned it up to 12 psi and made 581 RWHP and 700 RWTQ. My turbo is choked and peak RPM was at like 5000 ish. Show me a N/A engine that idles at 800 RPM with 14" vac and make that kind of HP and torque. There is lots left with a larger turbo as well. I ran close to mid 11s in a 4200 lb brick so far I can't see any down side of a turbo except the added complexity. Oh and the truck has never seen a drop of fuel over 91 octane on those tunes.


11.67@118 1.88 60' with only 7-8 lbs of boost. Turbocharged, megasquirted, 407 BB, 440 source heads, roller cam, 9:1 comp. http://s292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/beansgracie
Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075716
09/16/11 02:59 AM
09/16/11 02:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 475
HEMPSTEAD TX
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CUUDAK Offline
mopar
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HEMPSTEAD TX
Lol! Your Blackberry does video. I know, my wife has one! Its like crack to her.


SRT8 CHARGER "Four door bore" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075717
09/16/11 09:54 AM
09/16/11 09:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge Offline
master
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Houston, Texas
Before you change anything else (for power) get a lower AR housing like .8x

Your converter will be perfect. You think it is tight because your AR is too big. Heck, I run a .89 on mine.

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075718
09/16/11 11:11 AM
09/16/11 11:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
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Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
I went through much of the same thing when building my first TT440 in 2001. Nobody knew anything about putting a carb under a turbo. It was either some sort of voodoo or or a money sucking folly. Most of the people on Moparts were knocking me down and saying I would fail horribly. A few guys stuck by my side and offered info they thought would help.
As the build progressed more and more people came over to my side. Once it was running well I had the support of most Moparts regulars. I really needed that support because I never had much success with Holley carbs.

It's sad to think that this setup made it into Mopar Muscle Magazine in January 2002.



It's a far cry from the setup that made Popular Hot Rodding in 2009.




Now, there are truckloads of info available on the net, both good and bad. If someone spends the time to do a little research building a blow through turbo isn't that bad. You still find naysayers but stick with it and you'll be fine.

Now that I've played with EFI, I'm not interested in doing another blow through. Maybe your build will progress liks that through the years too.
So far, it sounds like you've done a pretty good job.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: feets] #1075719
09/16/11 11:28 AM
09/16/11 11:28 AM
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Odessa, Fl
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blowndart Offline
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The key to the blow through carbs success, is the carb hat you choose. I switched to EFI also and I'd never run a carb again either. Not because they don't work, but because EFI is so much better on a street car. O2 sensors and closed loop are a wonderful thing when gas is $3.50 +. Nice setup on the Valiant. I ran a Gt45 also, and it was a great turbo.

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: blowndart] #1075720
09/16/11 02:12 PM
09/16/11 02:12 PM
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Posts: 928
NC
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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Quote:

The key to the blow through carbs success, is the carb hat you choose. I switched to EFI also and I'd never run a carb again either. Not because they don't work, but because EFI is so much better on a street car. O2 sensors and closed loop are a wonderful thing when gas is $3.50 +. Nice setup on the Valiant. I ran a Gt45 also, and it was a great turbo.




I planned to go EFI when I first started but after spending wayyy too much money on trial and error building I was lacking the cash lol. I really want to find another Duster or Dart sport to make nice body wise and use all the things I've learned building this car to make the next nicer and more drivable. I've use this whole car as an expierment to test my abitlites. This is the first car I mini tubbed, added subframes, and moved the springs in. Sounds like little things but It pushed my abilites and I grew on it. Now I know what to do and what not to. Using nothing but a sawzall, hammer, and a side grinder I don't think I did too bad lol

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075721
09/16/11 02:35 PM
09/16/11 02:35 PM
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Posts: 928
NC
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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Another pic I dug up. This pic shows the header on the pass side I ended up using a manifold.

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: blowndart] #1075722
09/16/11 04:28 PM
09/16/11 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
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Irving, TX
Quote:

The key to the blow through carbs success, is the carb hat you choose.




Too true!
Take a looksie at that K&N hat I used on the original setup. That thing caused me no end of grief. With the turbos off the car the engine would choke above 3500 rpm. It was simply too restrictive for a 440.


Quote:

I switched to EFI also and I'd never run a carb again either. Not because they don't work, but because EFI is so much better on a street car. O2 sensors and closed loop are a wonderful thing when gas is $3.50 +.




Once you have a good running EFI you don't want to go back to a carb. It's so nice to plug in the laptop and dial up a new tune without opening the hood.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075723
09/17/11 12:26 AM
09/17/11 12:26 AM
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Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
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DakFink Offline
mopar
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Just like the Days of Old!!! 1 person has bad luck with it and all want to say the same. What many forget to mention is that the person with bad luck was probably trying to make a race-car out of a street set-up or vice-versa.

I've talked to a few people and that seems to be the only issue with Blow through set-ups. You set them up for Kill on the Track and they will probably give you fits on the street.

The other thing I have seen Highly suggested is to make sure you get a Carb set-up for Blow Through application by someone with a Good Reputation and track record.

So far looks like a Nice set-up you got going.

I personally like EFI: But I'm from the Tech Generation.(Gen-X)

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: DakFink] #1075724
09/19/11 02:44 PM
09/19/11 02:44 PM
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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I Prefer EFI too. Being a 24yo carbs obviously weren't around on production cars anymore but I have always owned a carb mopar. That being said I still think a properly tuned EFI setup is the way to go and I hopefully will be working towards one in the future.

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: SLOW67] #1075725
09/20/11 05:15 AM
09/20/11 05:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,894
Mira Loma, CA
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Mira Loma, CA
I love that car man

If I stayed with a small block (and wasnt broke) I woulda tried to go turbo. Maybe ill have to turbo the 440

Nice job on the build

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: 69B3GT] #1075726
09/28/11 02:44 PM
09/28/11 02:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,414
Toronto
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mshred Offline
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hey man, would you mind sharing all the details of your build? as in what you have into it money wise and parts wise? I have been debating whether to throw spray or a turbo/blower on to my low compression 360 j/y motor

Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: TheOtherDodge] #1075727
09/28/11 05:52 PM
09/28/11 05:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 121
mid-mich
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mid-mich
Quote:

Before you change anything else (for power) get a lower AR housing like .8x

Your converter will be perfect. You think it is tight because your AR is too big. Heck, I run a .89 on mine.




I agree, but to my knowledge, there is no other option. I had the same situation with one on a 302. I even had a 3200 convertor.


'72 Scamp, 3500#, 440, S400, blowthrough, meth. inj. 9.78 @ 139 so far at 12 psi, 11.00 @ 131 on real street tires.
Re: If your thinking of going turbo..... [Re: mshred] #1075728
09/29/11 12:32 AM
09/29/11 12:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 928
NC
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SLOW67 Offline OP
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SLOW67  Offline OP
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Quote:

hey man, would you mind sharing all the details of your build? as in what you have into it money wise and parts wise? I have been debating whether to throw spray or a turbo/blower on to my low compression 360 j/y motor




Parts wise, minus the headers,(use magnum manifolds, trust me), I've got about $800 in the hard parts. Almost everything in the build was from ebay lol so I saved alot of cash there. Some will tell you not to waste your time with ebay "junk" but all of my parts worked fine right out of the box. I can't say how long all of it will last but for the money you can just buy better stuff IF the ebay stuff fails IMO. I did have to upgrade my fuel system though and that added some to the final cost. I had a 3/8 line and an old single outlet fuel cell with a holley pump. I upgraded to a new cell, mallory 4309 reg.,a walbro 190lph pump, and a return line back to the tank. If you don't want to cut up your car, definitely go with meth. injection. A front mount intercooler takes up alot of room and all the piping and stuff adds weight. The $350 for a meth. system is better in the long run. The carb was easy to do...just a basic rebuild on a 650 holley. I did drill out my PCVR holes to 3/32 and it's alittle too much but has saved me from going lean. My 02 reads a steady .930-.950 milivolts until the secondaries open. I'm waiting on my jet kit to get here so I can up my secondaries to keep my full throttle from going lean. The cost and the installation cost all comes down to how well you can fabricate. I was somewhat out of my league on that part of it but learned alot and after messing up a few times I got it right. O yeah, definitely build a bracket to hold the turbo. My GT45 is heavy and would have probably already broke some of my questionable welds lol

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