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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1072717
09/10/11 07:17 PM
09/10/11 07:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,495
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,495
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
It's an engineered system (flow/volume/temperature/pressure/etc.), big radiator, higher temp thermostat, you want the water to have a chance to COOL when it's in the radiator not blast thru uncontrollably.
I thought the thermostat determined how long the fluid stayed in the radiator and the pump circulated the fluid through the engine until that time?
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: A12]
#1072718
09/10/11 07:49 PM
09/10/11 07:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Quote:
Are there flow ratings available for the two water pumps? Why does it appear that the A/C pump would flow less than a non-A/C pump, I would think it would be the exact opposite need. I can see that the A/C pump would have less drag or resistance than the non-A/C pump and can understand that would be important because of the increased drag of the A/C system but why such a big difference? What is the flow rate difference between the two??
The AC pump is designed to be overdriven - it spins faster along with the fan. With the higher speed water flow is increased.
Using the AC pump on a non-AC car reduces cooling because the pulley set up does not spin it fast enough.
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Imrare]
#1072719
09/11/11 12:29 AM
09/11/11 12:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Use the 8 blader on the R & tack weld an anticav plate behind it (between vanes/pump) & will need to cut a circular piece into 2 pieces (halves) to slip each half behind the vanes then weld them. I suspect you have more of an airflow prob &  ;run the smallest WP pulley you can find/tight fitting shroud/MP thermal clutch fan spaced ~2/3 into the shroud/good aftermarket 180 stat tested in a suspended pot of water ahead of time & a 1/16" hole will help elim air pockets/easier filling/3 core rad/unobstructed air flow 2 it
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Imrare]
#1072720
09/11/11 12:56 AM
09/11/11 12:56 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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Quote:
I have had a problem with my 383 overheating at idle. I pulled the water pump and realized the pump only has 6 blades on the impeller and is only 3.5" in diameter (A/C pump on a non-A/C car). The service manual states that a non-A/C 383 should have an 8 blade impeller that is 4.3 inches in diameter. I oredered a new water pump from Year-One and it has 8 blades and is 4.3 inches in diameter but when the new pump, on the right, is compared to the old 6 blade impeller pump, on the left (attachment), I noticed the new pump has the impeller reveresed from the old pump. I need help. Which way should the impeller face? Since the engine turns clockwise (when facing from the front) it appears the 8 blade impeller is backwards. Can someone help me on this? 
I'm EXACTLY wondering the same in another thread LOL.
Need to take in mind AC cars got smaller pulleys at water pump so spins faster.
I have known 8 blades on smaller pulleys can create cavitation at high rpms
Now, the doubt about blades facing opposite its still on the air
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1072722
09/11/11 10:36 AM
09/11/11 10:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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my initial doubt on the earlier thread I made mention was mainly because water pumps remanufacturers locally says where they are faced is important.
of course I don't trust on that or them, so that's why I wondered here
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Imrare]
#1072724
09/11/11 01:33 PM
09/11/11 01:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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yes the anticav plate makes the impellers more eff (moves more water) but in your case if an 8 blader does not fix things (& measure the pulley dia while you're at it) then consider airflow. Good luck w it & holler (in this thread if you would) how it turns out
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Imrare]
#1072731
09/12/11 01:01 PM
09/12/11 01:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,513
Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,513
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
This whole ordeal doesn't seem like it should be that complicated, I have been assured by two different shops that the radiator is good and if the pump is working properly and there is good "flow", the system has to cool. 
 Timing (too advanced at idle?) & carb (too lean at idle?) can also affect running temps. What is telling you it is too HOT?
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Imrare]
#1072733
09/12/11 03:59 PM
09/12/11 03:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
The engine is definetly overheating. The engine has been so hot in the past (from idling) that it has melted the foam steering column gasket that goes between the firewall and the base mount of the steering column, plus, like I've mentioned previously the engine begins to spark-knock and the amount of heat coming off of the engine is dramatic. It gets so hot that even with leather "Mechanix" gloves on the carb throttle is too hot to touch for very long. I haven't put a laser temp gage on the block to see what the degrees are, but belive me, it is very hot.
I have seen these off and on , do you have an ACTUAL TEMP READING ??? till then you could be chasing the wrong problem.
also how long are you leaving it sitting "idling" ??? The steering column foam is being melted by the heat off the EXHAUST MANIFOLDS , not the engine itself ...
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: JohnRR]
#1072734
09/12/11 07:20 PM
09/12/11 07:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
Quote:
The engine is definetly overheating. The engine has been so hot in the past (from idling) that it has melted the foam steering column gasket that goes between the firewall and the base mount of the steering column, plus, like I've mentioned previously the engine begins to spark-knock and the amount of heat coming off of the engine is dramatic. It gets so hot that even with leather "Mechanix" gloves on the carb throttle is too hot to touch for very long. I haven't put a laser temp gage on the block to see what the degrees are, but belive me, it is very hot.
I have seen these off and on , do you have an ACTUAL TEMP READING ??? till then you could be chasing the wrong problem.
also how long are you leaving it sitting "idling" ??? The steering column foam is being melted by the heat off the EXHAUST MANIFOLDS , not the engine itself ...
are you actually over-heating or is the 'reflected' heat of the engine your concern?
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Imrare]
#1072737
09/14/11 12:24 AM
09/14/11 12:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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Quote:
It only makes sense that the engine would overheat slowly at idle with the lower volume 6 blade pump.
as far I can tell is not about low or high volume, is related about the size of the pulley. A/C cars got smaller pulleys on Water pump, so at same RPMs will spin faster being 6 vanes
Quote:
I bought two pumps, one from NAPA and one from Year One. The year one looks to have the impeller set up for counter clock-wise rotation while the NAPA pump is set up for clock-wise rotation (they also sell the same pump for counter clock-wise rotation with an impeller that looks like the Year-One pump. For my application, I need clock-wise rotation. However, Year-One only lists this pump for the "383 - 440" application? I'm going with the NAPA pump. 
This is very interesting... CW against CCW talking about same 8 vanes pump... aren't all engines with regular belts the same rotation no matter the belt setup with or without A/C ?
now there is something said by 6bblgt what is true... blades are 90 degrees, and if you install an "anti-cavitation" plate it will make work the impellers the same no matter how are cut the vanes if faced CW or CCW
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: NachoRT74]
#1072738
09/14/11 09:51 AM
09/14/11 09:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
It only makes sense that the engine would overheat slowly at idle with the lower volume 6 blade pump.
as far I can tell is not about low or high volume, is related about the size of the pulley. A/C cars got smaller pulleys on Water pump, so at same RPMs will spin faster being 6 vanes
Quote:
I bought two pumps, one from NAPA and one from Year One. The year one looks to have the impeller set up for counter clock-wise rotation while the NAPA pump is set up for clock-wise rotation (they also sell the same pump for counter clock-wise rotation with an impeller that looks like the Year-One pump. For my application, I need clock-wise rotation. However, Year-One only lists this pump for the "383 - 440" application? I'm going with the NAPA pump.
This is very interesting... CW against CCW talking about same 8 vanes pump... aren't all engines with regular belts the same rotation no matter the belt setup with or without A/C ?
now there is something said by 6bblgt what is true... blades are 90 degrees, and if you install an "anti-cavitation" plate it will make work the impellers the same no matter how are cut the vanes if faced CW or CCW
There is no factory serpentine setup for a big block mopar so I can't see the aftermarket making a CW and CCW pump , those pumps will push water no matter what direction they spin .
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: A12]
#1072741
09/14/11 11:02 AM
09/14/11 11:02 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
RoadRunnerJD
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,123
Warrenton, VA
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Quote:
Are there flow ratings available for the two water pumps? Why does it appear that the A/C pump would flow less than a non-A/C pump, I would think it would be the exact opposite need. I can see that the A/C pump would have less drag or resistance than the non-A/C pump and can understand that would be important because of the increased drag of the A/C system but why such a big difference? What is the flow rate difference between the two??
I read up on this a long time ago. If you move the coolant through the motor too fast, it does not allow the
water/coolant adequate time to transfer the heat. Hemi's put
out more heat and only have a 6 blade impeller just for that
reason...to slow the flow down a little. I think Chrysler
engineers also increased the diameter of the Hemi crank pulley and reduced the diameter of the water pump pulley from 68- 69 to try to get the optimum rpm's for the water pump? I believe 383/440 HP's and A/C equipped cars had 8 blade impellers. It's a little hard to understand. On the otherhand, I would be concerned about the backwards configuration of the impeller too? It just does not look right.
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: RoadRunnerJD]
#1072742
09/14/11 12:00 PM
09/14/11 12:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,832
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,832
S.E. Michigan
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I ran a 6 blade AC water pump on the 440 that used to be in my GTX for about 14 years. The first one had 93,000 miles on it when I installed it, it started leaking about 10 years later. I replaced it with another 6 blade from the parts store.
I always used non/ac pulleys.
In 14 years, many of which were daily driven (for a few years the GTX was my only transportation) the only heating problems I ever had were due to either me not using the fan shroud, or the radiator being clogged. Even when the first water pump leaked, it did not overheat.
So I guess I don't agree with the whole diagnosis, but good luck with it nonetheless.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Imrare]
#1072744
09/15/11 06:57 PM
09/15/11 06:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Holler (in this thread) how it turns out. Yes Ma had their recommendations on that & I'm certainly not an engineer (or even close 2 it) but I haven't seen a prob w cavitation & I gotta go w an 8 blader/smallest WP pulley I can find/fit but I always use an added anticav plate esp on a SB
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Imrare]
#1072748
08/17/12 12:02 PM
08/17/12 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,861
albany ny
05dakota
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,861
albany ny
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Imrare]
#1072749
08/17/12 12:04 PM
08/17/12 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,438
So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,438
So Cal
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What about the distributor and timing curve... A close friend and his 383 was overheating badly up to 225, he changed water pumps, added a shroud... Still a problem... I checked his Mopar performance distributor, he had 14 degrees mechanical advance...  I reset it to 10 degrees mechanical advance, set initial @ 15 degrees and fired it up.. It ran @ 190 degrees and is doing very well in our 105 degree SoCal heat wave.. Check the basics... Mopar built a pretty robust engine and cooling system.. Just my $0.02... 
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: 05dakota]
#1072750
08/17/12 12:12 PM
08/17/12 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 291
St. Louis
Imrare
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 291
St. Louis
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Quote:
do you have fan shroud?
Yes
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Sinitro]
#1072751
08/17/12 12:15 PM
08/17/12 12:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 291
St. Louis
Imrare
OP
enthusiast
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OP
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Posts: 291
St. Louis
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Quote:
What about the distributor and timing curve...
A close friend and his 383 was overheating badly up to 225, he changed water pumps, added a shroud...
Still a problem...
I checked his Mopar performance distributor, he had 14 degrees mechanical advance...
I reset it to 10 degrees mechanical advance, set initial @ 15 degrees and fired it up..
It ran @ 190 degrees and is doing very well in our 105 degree SoCal heat wave..
Check the basics...
Mopar built a pretty robust engine and cooling system..
Just my $0.02...
Good point and easy to check, I will definitely check that out, thank you.
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Sinitro]
#1072752
08/17/12 01:10 PM
08/17/12 01:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
What about the distributor and timing curve...
A close friend and his 383 was overheating badly up to 225, he changed water pumps, added a shroud...
Still a problem...
I checked his Mopar performance distributor, he had 14 degrees mechanical advance...
I reset it to 10 degrees mechanical advance, set initial @ 15 degrees and fired it up..
It ran @ 190 degrees and is doing very well in our 105 degree SoCal heat wave..
Check the basics...
Mopar built a pretty robust engine and cooling system..
Just my $0.02...
Is this correct ? That would only be 25 TOTAL, I can see it running even hotter ?????
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: JohnRR]
#1072753
08/17/12 03:24 PM
08/17/12 03:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,438
So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,438
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
What about the distributor and timing curve...
A close friend and his 383 was overheating badly up to 225, he changed water pumps, added a shroud...
Still a problem...
I checked his Mopar performance distributor, he had 14 degrees mechanical advance...
I reset it to 10 degrees mechanical advance, set initial @ 15 degrees and fired it up..
It ran @ 190 degrees and is doing very well in our 105 degree SoCal heat wave..
Check the basics...
Mopar built a pretty robust engine and cooling system..
Just my $0.02...
Is this correct ? That would only be 25 TOTAL, I can see it running even hotter ?????
10 degrees in the distributor is x2 @ the crank + 15 degrees (initial)..
20 + 15=35 degrees total @ the crank.
IMHO...
One can run a little more total advance but the BB wedges don't really run that much better with more advance.
Just my $0.02...
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Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner
[Re: Sinitro]
#1072754
08/17/12 05:04 PM
08/17/12 05:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What about the distributor and timing curve...
A close friend and his 383 was overheating badly up to 225, he changed water pumps, added a shroud...
Still a problem...
I checked his Mopar performance distributor, he had 14 degrees mechanical advance...
I reset it to 10 degrees mechanical advance, set initial @ 15 degrees and fired it up..
It ran @ 190 degrees and is doing very well in our 105 degree SoCal heat wave..
Check the basics...
Mopar built a pretty robust engine and cooling system..
Just my $0.02...
Is this correct ? That would only be 25 TOTAL, I can see it running even hotter ?????
10 degrees in the distributor is x2 @ the crank + 15 degrees (initial)..
20 + 15=35 degrees total @ the crank.
IMHO...
One can run a little more total advance but the BB wedges don't really run that much better with more advance.
Just my $0.02...
Thanks for finishing that and some people in Michigan would beg to differ on the total timing for big block wedges ...
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