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Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner #1072713 09/10/11 05:16 PM 09/10/11 05:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	I have had a problem with my 383 overheating at idle. I pulled the water pump and realized the pump only has 6 blades on the impeller and is only 3.5" in diameter (A/C pump on a non-A/C car). The service manual states that a non-A/C 383 should have an 8 blade impeller that is 4.3 inches in diameter. I oredered a new water pump from Year-One and it has 8 blades and is 4.3 inches in diameter but when the new pump, on the right, is compared to the old 6 blade impeller pump, on the left (attachment), I noticed the new pump has the impeller reveresed from the old pump. I need help. Which way should the impeller face? Since the engine turns clockwise (when facing from the front) it appears the 8 blade impeller is backwards. Can someone help me on this? 6819958-WaterPumpCompare.JPG (183 downloads) Last edited by Imrare; 09/10/11 08:03 PM.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072714 09/10/11 06:09 PM 09/10/11 06:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV 6bblgt I Live Here
6bblgt I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV	The blades move the water, the support for the blades (which are opposite in your pic) have some effect but basically do not matter.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: 6bblgt] #1072715 09/10/11 06:32 PM 09/10/11 06:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,497 N.E. OHIO, USA A12 Too Many Posts
A12 Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,497 N.E. OHIO, USA	Are there flow ratings available for the two water pumps? Why does it appear that the A/C pump would flow less than a non-A/C pump, I would think it would be the exact opposite need. I can see that the A/C pump would have less drag or resistance than the non-A/C pump and can understand that would be important because of the increased drag of the A/C system but why such a big difference? What is the flow rate difference between the two??

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: A12] #1072716 09/10/11 06:54 PM 09/10/11 06:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV 6bblgt I Live Here
6bblgt I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV	It's an engineered system (flow/volume/temperature/pressure/etc.), big radiator, higher temp thermostat, you want the water to have a chance to COOL when it's in the radiator not blast thru uncontrollably.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: 6bblgt] #1072717 09/10/11 07:17 PM 09/10/11 07:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,497 N.E. OHIO, USA A12 Too Many Posts
A12 Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,497 N.E. OHIO, USA	Quote: It's an engineered system (flow/volume/temperature/pressure/etc.), big radiator, higher temp thermostat, you want the water to have a chance to COOL when it's in the radiator not blast thru uncontrollably. I thought the thermostat determined how long the fluid stayed in the radiator and the pump circulated the fluid through the engine until that time?

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: A12] #1072718 09/10/11 07:49 PM 09/10/11 07:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	Quote: Are there flow ratings available for the two water pumps? Why does it appear that the A/C pump would flow less than a non-A/C pump, I would think it would be the exact opposite need. I can see that the A/C pump would have less drag or resistance than the non-A/C pump and can understand that would be important because of the increased drag of the A/C system but why such a big difference? What is the flow rate difference between the two?? The AC pump is designed to be overdriven - it spins faster along with the fan. With the higher speed water flow is increased. Using the AC pump on a non-AC car reduces cooling because the pulley set up does not spin it fast enough.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072719 09/11/11 12:29 AM 09/11/11 12:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Use the 8 blader on the R & tack weld an anticav plate behind it (between vanes/pump) & will need to cut a circular piece into 2 pieces (halves) to slip each half behind the vanes then weld them. I suspect you have more of an airflow prob & ;run the smallest WP pulley you can find/tight fitting shroud/MP thermal clutch fan spaced ~2/3 into the shroud/good aftermarket 180 stat tested in a suspended pot of water ahead of time & a 1/16" hole will help elim air pockets/easier filling/3 core rad/unobstructed air flow 2 it live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072720 09/11/11 12:56 AM 09/11/11 12:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España	Quote: I have had a problem with my 383 overheating at idle. I pulled the water pump and realized the pump only has 6 blades on the impeller and is only 3.5" in diameter (A/C pump on a non-A/C car). The service manual states that a non-A/C 383 should have an 8 blade impeller that is 4.3 inches in diameter. I oredered a new water pump from Year-One and it has 8 blades and is 4.3 inches in diameter but when the new pump, on the right, is compared to the old 6 blade impeller pump, on the left (attachment), I noticed the new pump has the impeller reveresed from the old pump. I need help. Which way should the impeller face? Since the engine turns clockwise (when facing from the front) it appears the 8 blade impeller is backwards. Can someone help me on this? I'm EXACTLY wondering the same in another thread LOL. Need to take in mind AC cars got smaller pulleys at water pump so spins faster. I have known 8 blades on smaller pulleys can create cavitation at high rpms Now, the doubt about blades facing opposite its still on the air With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: NachoRT74] #1072721 09/11/11 04:17 AM 09/11/11 04:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV 6bblgt I Live Here
6bblgt I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV	The blades on a big-block water pump run perpendicular to the shaft, there is NO front or back by design. Here's a picture with the "anti-cavitation" modification, does it appear to function any differently run forward or reverse? 6820683-waterpump1.jpg (113 downloads)

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: 6bblgt] #1072722 09/11/11 10:36 AM 09/11/11 10:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,095 Valencia, España	my initial doubt on the earlier thread I made mention was mainly because water pumps remanufacturers locally says where they are faced is important. of course I don't trust on that or them, so that's why I wondered here With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: 6bblgt] #1072723 09/11/11 01:26 PM 09/11/11 01:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	6bblgt: your anti-cavataion modification was done to move more coolant, correct? However, to me it seems it shouldn't be a necessary modification required to have my OE 383 operate as designed. I've had the radator, thermostat, etc, etc, checked out and so far I have been unable to determine why I have an "overheating problem at extended idle" in very hot weather. I think I have found my problem when I discoved an A/C water pump in my non-A/C equiped Roadrunner. In fact, now it all kind of makes sense. I was just concerned when I noticed the impellers between to two pumps are reversed from each other.

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072724 09/11/11 01:33 PM 09/11/11 01:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	yes the anticav plate makes the impellers more eff (moves more water) but in your case if an 8 blader does not fix things (& measure the pulley dia while you're at it) then consider airflow. Good luck w it & holler (in this thread if you would) how it turns out live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072725 09/11/11 01:43 PM 09/11/11 01:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV 6bblgt I Live Here
6bblgt I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV	The "anti-cavitation" (not mine) isn't for moving more coolant. At high speed the blades will form a "cavity" in the fluid & cause loss of flow (like a clogged snow-blower or lawnmower, still spinning but not throwing/cutting). The plate is a remedy, how well it works - I don't know. Is the overheating a recent problem? What are the specs. of your 383 build, .060" over, etc.? Is your gauge accurate?

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: 6bblgt] #1072726 09/11/11 02:05 PM 09/11/11 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,186 Wherever I am. J Junky master
Junky master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,186 Wherever I am.	Does anyone have diameter sizes for ac and non ac water pump pulleys? That would help me know what combo I have. 2010 Black Challenger SE <> 3.5 V6 Custom Shift Knobs www.flameball.com Check It Out

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Junky] #1072727 09/12/11 10:47 AM 09/12/11 10:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	Junky: Non-A/C Pulleys: Water pump 6 13/16; Crankshaft 6 9/16. The service manual calls for a rotation ratio of .95:1 (Water pump vs Crankshaft). I believe these measurement come out to about .96:1 but I was measuring with a plastic ruler leaning over the grill of my Roadrunner (could have been a little off). 6bblgt: No this is not a recent issue; I've been half-heartedly pursuing this problem for the last 3 years. If you look back in the archives I have had several posts on this forum and I've tried numerous remedies. I have had all components in the cooling system toughly checked and the last thing to check was the water pump. It has not been a huge issue because my car is a show car I have been reluctant to disassemble a pristine engine compartment and unless I get caught is stopped traffic on a hot summer day, I'm fine. One other thing I am going to do is drain the block and look for any debris. If I see any debris, I may focus there to make sure I don't have an obstruction. I doubt I�ll see anything as the engine was �Hot Tanked� when it was rebuilt (bored .30 over). This whole ordeal doesn't seem like it should be that complicated, I have been assured by two different shops that the radiator is good and if the pump is working properly and there is good "flow", the system has to cool. 6822457-EngineCompartment.jpg (67 downloads)

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072728 09/12/11 10:57 AM 09/12/11 10:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,042 colorado S savoy64 top fuel
savoy64 top fuel S Joined: Sep 2011 Posts: 2,042 colorado	a properly fitted fan shroud will give more cooling than anything else---bob

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: savoy64] #1072729 09/12/11 11:22 AM 09/12/11 11:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	8 blader/overdriven WP/more airflow live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072730 09/12/11 12:39 PM 09/12/11 12:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,186 Wherever I am. J Junky master
Junky master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,186 Wherever I am.	Thanks for the measurements. 2010 Black Challenger SE <> 3.5 V6 Custom Shift Knobs www.flameball.com Check It Out

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: Imrare] #1072731 09/12/11 01:01 PM 09/12/11 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV 6bblgt I Live Here
6bblgt I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,515 Las Vegas, NV	Quote: This whole ordeal doesn't seem like it should be that complicated, I have been assured by two different shops that the radiator is good and if the pump is working properly and there is good "flow", the system has to cool. Timing (too advanced at idle?) & carb (too lean at idle?) can also affect running temps. What is telling you it is too HOT?

Re: Which is the right water pump for my 383 Roadrunner [Re: 6bblgt] #1072732 09/12/11 03:49 PM 09/12/11 03:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis I Imrare OP enthusiast
Imrare OP enthusiast I Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 291 St. Louis	The engine is definetly overheating. The engine has been so hot in the past (from idling) that it has melted the foam steering column gasket that goes between the firewall and the base mount of the steering column, plus, like I've mentioned previously the engine begins to spark-knock and the amount of heat coming off of the engine is dramatic. It gets so hot that even with leather "Mechanix" gloves on the carb throttle is too hot to touch for very long. I haven't put a laser temp gage on the block to see what the degrees are, but belive me, it is very hot.

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