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UPDATE 9-9-11 Need help trying to prime the oil system. #1069821 09/05/11 06:19 PM 09/05/11 06:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL VOABIRD OP member
VOABIRD OP member Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL	I posted yesterday that my 440 lost oil pressure after an oil change and had to be towed home. At the advise of people on this forum I have removed the distributor and inserted a 5/16" tool to operate the oil pump. I am turning the shaft counter clockwise and feeling some resistance. I have the valve covers off and I can hear the oil gurgling and hissing coming from what sounds like under the intake manifold. Watching the oil gauge it doesn't appear to move or maybe just slightly. Has anyone done this that can tell me if the gurgling and hissing is a normal sound? Thanks 6812175-IMAG0312.jpg (71 downloads) Last edited by VOABIRD; 09/09/11 05:28 PM.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: VOABIRD] #1069822 09/05/11 06:22 PM 09/05/11 06:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,814 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,814 Kirkland, Washington	Sounds to me like there is air in the pick-up tube and the pump is struggling to fill it with oil. Did you pre-lube the new oild filter when you did the change? You might want to pull the filter and see if its filling.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: VOABIRD] #1069823 09/05/11 06:23 PM 09/05/11 06:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	Yes that's normal...you sure the gauge is working?

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: Challenger 1] #1069824 09/05/11 06:26 PM 09/05/11 06:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: Yes that's normal...you sure the gauge is working? Is the key on? the gauge is electrical, it doesn't work without power... Could be plenty of other things but gotta start with the ez stuff.. "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #1069825 09/05/11 06:32 PM 09/05/11 06:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL VOABIRD OP member
VOABIRD OP member Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL	Quote: Quote: Yes that's normal...you sure the gauge is working? Is the key on? the gauge is electrical, it doesn't work without power... Could be plenty of other things but gotta start with the ez stuff.. Thanks, yes the key is on and the gauge appears to and has worked fine. I did ground the sender wire and it pegged the gauge.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: VOABIRD] #1069826 09/05/11 06:36 PM 09/05/11 06:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Put a mech gauge on it .... THEN check it with a priming rod.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: VOABIRD] #1069827 09/05/11 06:38 PM 09/05/11 06:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	You have an average to fair amt of drag on the drill right? W the valve covers off turn the timing marks 2 TDC #6 & (re) prime & see if the pass valve train is oiling then turn the crank 450 deg (1&1/4 turns) (rotor at #8) & prime & see if dr side oils. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: VOABIRD] #1069828 09/05/11 06:38 PM 09/05/11 06:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Gurgling noise could be normal or could indicate an internal leak.... What was going on with the car prior to loosing oil pressure? Are you turning the oil drive with a drill or a speed wrench? Speed wrench won't create much pressure... Drill you should be able to get good movement out of the gauge... Last edited by 1_WILD_RT; 09/05/11 06:40 PM. "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: dOc !] #1069829 09/05/11 06:40 PM 09/05/11 06:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,814 Kirkland, Washington Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 21,814 Kirkland, Washington	You state "I have the valve covers off"---I assume there is no oil reaching the heads--you might try rotating the crank a quarter turn each side of top dead center and spinning the pump again...

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #1069830 09/05/11 06:47 PM 09/05/11 06:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,063 Niles , Ohio T therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah. T Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,063 Niles , Ohio	Actually the pump should drag the drill down pretty good.If you are using anything less than a decent 1/2 inch drill it probally wont turn if oiling properly.When I prime my 440 it darn near twists my old 1/2 inch drill from my hands.My kids 62 413 does the same.Rocky Chrysler Firepower

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1069831 09/05/11 06:47 PM 09/05/11 06:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,695 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,695 North Dakota	Very little resistance? Check all of your rocker arms to make sure you didn't spit a lifter out. There are only so many things that cause a sudden loss of oil pressure while running. 1) twisted tang on intermediate shaft (isn't that) 2) oil filter rupture (isn't that) 3) cracked pickup tube (probably not, I've seen two of these fail in my entire life) 4) pushrod/rocker failure and loss of lifter (???) "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: 6PakBee] #1069832 09/05/11 06:52 PM 09/05/11 06:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL VOABIRD OP member
VOABIRD OP member Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL	The lifters and push rods appear to be OK, is there something specific I should really be looking at? Since trying to prime the oil system I have noticed the lifters seem to have pumped back up. I am using a cordless drill maybe I will use a 1/2" corded drill and see what happens. Last edited by VOABIRD; 09/05/11 06:54 PM.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: therocks] #1069833 09/05/11 07:19 PM 09/05/11 07:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Quote: Actually the pump should drag the drill down pretty good.If you are using anything less than a decent 1/2 inch drill it probally wont turn if oiling properly.When I prime my 440 it darn near twists my old 1/2 inch drill from my hands.My kids 62 413 does the same.Rocky Oh I never said it was gonna spin it easily, it takes a good drill & you need to be holding it solidly or it will rip it outta your hands.. But if your braced & ready you can develop good pressure... "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: 6PakBee] #1069834 09/05/11 07:24 PM 09/05/11 07:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,144 PA. pittsburghracer "Little"John
pittsburghracer "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,144 PA.	Quote: Very little resistance? Check all of your rocker arms to make sure you didn't spit a lifter out. There are only so many things that cause a sudden loss of oil pressure while running. 1) twisted tang on intermediate shaft (isn't that) 2) oil filter rupture (isn't that) 3) cracked pickup tube (probably not, I've seen two of these fail in my entire life) 4) pushrod/rocker failure and loss of lifter (???) 5. Collapsed oil filter. 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #1069835 09/05/11 07:25 PM 09/05/11 07:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL VOABIRD OP member
VOABIRD OP member Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL	Quote: Gurgling noise could be normal or could indicate an internal leak.... What was going on with the car prior to loosing oil pressure? My engine has always run perfect, I decided to change the oil and did not fill the filter. I had driven the car about 4 miles when I noticed there was no oil pressure. When I checked the filter it didn't have much oil in it. The engine was full of oil.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: VOABIRD] #1069836 09/05/11 07:34 PM 09/05/11 07:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	Quote: The lifters and push rods appear to be OK, is there something specific I should really be looking at? Since trying to prime the oil system I have noticed the lifters seem to have pumped back up. I am using a cordless drill maybe I will use a 1/2" corded drill and see what happens. ....to a 1/2 corded drill.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. [Re: VOABIRD] #1069837 09/05/11 09:34 PM 09/05/11 09:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ DJVCuda I Live Here
DJVCuda I Live Here Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ	Quote: I posted yesterday that my 440 lost oil pressure after an oil change and had to be towed home. At the advise of people on this forum I have removed the distributor and inserted a 5/16" tool to operate the oil pump. I am turning the shaft counter clockwise and feeling some resistance. I have the valve covers off and I can hear the oil gurgling and hissing coming from what sounds like under the intake manifold. Watching the oil gauge it doesn't appear to move or maybe just slightly. Has anyone done this that can tell me if the gurgling and hissing is a normal sound? Thanks \ When we rebuilt my dads 383 several years ago the first oil change saw no oil, it primed after several tries, and then the second oil change the same thing - this time it never primed... It was the Mopar Oil pump - the dealer we got it from ( mopar performance ) took it back after we showed them excessive clearance in the pump to cover. We got another pump and never had another issue.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update [Re: DJVCuda] #1069838 09/06/11 01:57 PM 09/06/11 01:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL VOABIRD OP member
VOABIRD OP member Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL	I used a 1/2" reversible drill and I still don't feel much resistance in the oil pump. I pulled the oil pump off and it looks good, checked the relief valve and it is smooth and free. I will put everything back together and let you know what happens. I'm not very hopeful.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update [Re: VOABIRD] #1069839 09/06/11 02:06 PM 09/06/11 02:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,909 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,909 Grand Prairie,Texas	Did you pack the pump with vaseline before reinstalling it. That helps prime the pump.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update [Re: VOABIRD] #1069840 09/06/11 02:08 PM 09/06/11 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,942 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,942 U.S.S.A.	Quote: I used a 1/2" reversible drill and I still don't feel much resistance in the oil pump. I pulled the oil pump off and it looks good, checked the relief valve and it is smooth and free. I will put everything back together and let you know what happens. I'm not very hopeful. What oil filter do you have on it ? Put some grease inside the pump to help with initial prime.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update [Re: JohnRR] #1069841 09/06/11 02:41 PM 09/06/11 02:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL VOABIRD OP member
VOABIRD OP member Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL	I'm getting oil to move through the engine but I hear gurgling and hissing under the intake manifold while priming and it never really builds up much pressure. the gauge does not register any pressure either. I have a new Mopar filter on and threw the Fram I had on it away when the problem occurred away. Last edited by VOABIRD; 09/06/11 05:24 PM.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update [Re: VOABIRD] #1069842 09/06/11 03:22 PM 09/06/11 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,909 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,909 Grand Prairie,Texas	Sounds like you need to pull the intake and valley pan to see where the noises are coming from.

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update [Re: stumpy] #1069843 09/06/11 03:30 PM 09/06/11 03:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: Sounds like you need to pull the intake and valley pan X 2, time 2 dig further live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update [Re: RapidRobert] #1069844 09/06/11 03:33 PM 09/06/11 03:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,942 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,942 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Sounds like you need to pull the intake and valley pan X 2, time 2 dig further X3

UPDATE Need help trying to prime the oil system. 9-9-11 [Re: JohnRR] #1069845 09/09/11 05:26 PM 09/09/11 05:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL VOABIRD OP member
VOABIRD OP member Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 15 KC KS or Punta Gorda FL FL	Good news. I could not build any oil pressure when I tried priming the engine with a drill through the distribuitor. I kept hearing gurgling and hissing under the intake manifolf. After 2 days I thought about trying to drink through a straw with a hole in it and decided to pull the oil pan. The oil pick up tube was cracked where it threads into the block and broke off when I touched it. A trip to the auto parts store for 2 pan gaskets and a $17.50 pick up tube and the bird is running. Thanks to everyone for their advise. Last edited by VOABIRD; 09/09/11 05:28 PM.

Re: UPDATE Need help trying to prime the oil system. 9-9-11 [Re: VOABIRD] #1069846 09/09/11 07:54 PM 09/09/11 07:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 531 USA 5 540DUSTER mopar
540DUSTER mopar 5 Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 531 USA	the pump turns counter-clock wise,so you want to run the drill in reverse.

Re: UPDATE Need help trying to prime the oil system. 9-9-11 [Re: VOABIRD] #1069847 09/10/11 07:27 AM 09/10/11 07:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,695 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,695 North Dakota	Quote: Good news. I could not build any oil pressure when I tried priming the engine with a drill through the distribuitor. I kept hearing gurgling and hissing under the intake manifolf. After 2 days I thought about trying to drink through a straw with a hole in it and decided to pull the oil pan. The oil pick up tube was cracked where it threads into the block and broke off when I touched it. A trip to the auto parts store for 2 pan gaskets and a $17.50 pick up tube and the bird is running. Thanks to everyone for their advise. Hmm. Thought it might be that but as I mentioned, I have only seen that happen twice in over 35 years. Now it's three times. Just as a note, looking at a number of pickups over the years some seem to have rolled threads that end with a smooth transition and some seem to be cut where the end of the thread is sharp. Both failures I've personally seen had the sharply cut threads and the failure appeared to have started at the end of the thread. "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

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