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Rust Holes Repair
#1059229
08/22/11 02:00 AM
08/22/11 02:00 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 392
Mississippi
lahatte
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 392
Mississippi
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I have some spots on a quarter panel with a few pin holes due to rust. A typical holey section is about 3"x3". See the dark spots in this photo (or here... http://www.creative-machining.com/claylahatte/auto/1971cudaconv_java/#IMG_1634.jpg). The areas have been blasted both sides and are clean. What would be the best way to repair these kinds of areas? A simple fix might be to put something on the backside, like fiberglass, and skim the outside with body filler. Or, I could possibly weld these holes, but I would hate to make them bigger by burning metal, not the mention the possibility of distorting the panel shape. What do you think? Thanks.
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: 340swing]
#1059231
08/22/11 12:36 PM
08/22/11 12:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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The problem is getting to the backside. And more importantly, getting all the crud out thst caused it to rust from the inside out. I'd suggest cutting out a square to get to the inside, try to vacuum out all the crap, then patch the hole with good metal.
My quarters had a good 4-5" deep pile of dirt, rust flakes, etc between the outer skin and the inner panel. I couldn't access it till I cut the quarter off.
Plus, the inner panel will be just as soft and rusty and needs fixed too. It's easiest to remove the whole quarter to find all the hidden rust, fix it, and patch the quarter and re-use, or get a new quarter.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: lahatte]
#1059232
08/22/11 12:49 PM
08/22/11 12:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Do it properly; cut out the rusty section and weld in new metal. Looks like you will have too much time and effort into this car to start "half azzing" it now.  Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1059233
08/22/11 01:17 PM
08/22/11 01:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
Morty426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
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Quote:
The problem is getting to the backside. And more importantly, getting all the crud out thst caused it to rust from the inside out. I'd suggest cutting out a square to get to the inside, try to vacuum out all the crap, then patch the hole with good metal.
My quarters had a good 4-5" deep pile of dirt, rust flakes, etc between the outer skin and the inner panel. I couldn't access it till I cut the quarter off.
Plus, the inner panel will be just as soft and rusty and needs fixed too. It's easiest to remove the whole quarter to find all the hidden rust, fix it, and patch the quarter and re-use, or get a new quarter.
If you had looked at the pictures you would have seen that there is no back side. 
First off - you are crazy - it's a good crazy, but still crazy. I think I would have started with a better car.
My suggestion would be to cut out the section and weld in a patch. It looks like to big an area for welding the holes.
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1059234
08/22/11 03:23 PM
08/22/11 03:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 392
Mississippi
lahatte
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 392
Mississippi
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The trunk extentions have been removed, so all the metal is exposed for blasting. There are some other similar spots as well. I agree about the not half-assing at this point, but a pair of quarters is another $1000+, and these are attached so nicely to the rocker panels. I'm still thinking about replacing them. Yes, I'm nuts. It's been quite a job, a bit more than I anticipated, with having to replace the firewall, but at least it will almost be a new car. And hey, it ain't nothing but a thing. 
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: lahatte]
#1059236
08/22/11 03:46 PM
08/22/11 03:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
By the way, knowing that both sides of the metal are clean, what would be your concerns if using fiberglass, or something similar, as a backing to support a skim of filler on the outside? Do you think the filler might crack or break at the interface, causing the paint to crack? These are small holes, and generally the metal without holes is in decent shape.
Thanks.
Yep, I think that at some point the filler will crack and the metal will start rusting again. Clean or not, metal that has pitted is 10x more likely to rust than metal that hasn't been rusted/pitted. Filler isn't meant for this kind of repair and fiberglass is a bandaid. If I ever found fiberglass on the back of a panel, I'd run, not walk away from the car.
Do it once, do it right.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: lahatte]
#1059240
08/22/11 05:36 PM
08/22/11 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,103
East Coast, NJ
fig426
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,103
East Coast, NJ
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So what does it take to convert a hardtop to a vert? I have a 71 383 2bbl sitting around doing nothing. Would be cool as a vert!! As for the metal, just cut out the old, weld in new. Pinholes just weld up while using a flat piece of copper as a backer.
Chris from New Jersey
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: fig426]
#1059241
08/22/11 06:43 PM
08/22/11 06:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 392
Mississippi
lahatte
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 392
Mississippi
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I've been using brass, but copper would probably be better.
Making a convertible... well, it depends, I suppose, on how much you care to fabricate yourself, as opposed to obtaining from a convertible donor car. Other than the obvious ones, there are several differences, such as trunk hinge supports, windshield frame, reinforced rockers, and reinforced inner structure that holds the top assembly. The top well opening has a gutter/structural system which collects and drains off water. Then there are all the convertible-specific molding and interior pieces.
As far as I know, Ken Hopperdietzel does the best conversions.
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: lahatte]
#1059244
08/23/11 08:32 AM
08/23/11 08:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
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I HATE  doing rear quarters because if the outside is rusted, the inner panel is garbage too. Cutting out both sections, welding in new tin, grinding, doing everthing twice, really bites it. I really, really detest it because there's so many 1/2 day inexpensive alternatives. But I do it. 
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: Commando1]
#1059245
08/23/11 08:50 AM
08/23/11 08:50 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
I HATE doing rear quarters because if the outside is rusted, the inner panel is garbage too. Cutting out both sections, welding in new tin, grinding, doing everthing twice, really bites it. I really, really detest it because there's so many 1/2 day inexpensive alternatives.
But I do it.
I understand your frustration! I've been working on this for about a month now. the other day I was thinking "man, it'll be a shame to cover up all this work so no one will ever see it!
you can see the fresh metal compared to replaced metal because the fresh is still silver, the original turned black from the rust converter.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1059246
08/23/11 09:12 AM
08/23/11 09:12 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 958
eastern, pa.
cudabitten
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 958
eastern, pa.
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Quote:
Quote:
I HATE doing rear quarters because if the outside is rusted, the inner panel is garbage too. Cutting out both sections, welding in new tin, grinding, doing everthing twice, really bites it. I really, really detest it because there's so many 1/2 day inexpensive alternatives.
But I do it.
I understand your frustration! I've been working on this for about a month now. the other day I was thinking "man, it'll be a shame to cover up all this work so no one will ever see it!
I had these same feelings, actually I've been working on the rear frame rails, rear frame brace, rocker corners, outer wells,etc, for about a year and a half, and my neighbors stop by and say," wow not much progress", they don't understand all the work that goes on behind the scenes. I guess we can still climb up inside the wells, and look behind the quarters from inside, and appreciate all the work we've done when its all done.Just got past this same repair, good luck.
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Re: Rust Holes Repair
[Re: cudabitten]
#1059247
08/23/11 10:20 AM
08/23/11 10:20 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 958
eastern, pa.
cudabitten
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 958
eastern, pa.
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Gettin back to the original post, I agree, 1/4's are expensive, if you can save what have, its worth it. I also agree filler probably is not the fix for pin holes in that area, but Mig'in pin holes shut, is the most difficult things for me anyway. copper back or not, plus your welding out of position. I've seen on another site where they repaired an area like that by cleaning the metal, then treating with something like picklex,(rust converter/treatment), then used aluminum tape as a backer, and filled the front with a polyester, waterproof filler. There may have been other steps involved. The site is called autoybodystore.com. there are alternatives,you can also coat the back with a rust encapsulator. Guys on that site have had repairs last for over ten years like that.
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hmm,well then,as long as the metal is clean,you should not weld it properly,why spend money on bondo?maybe you could use a quality duct tape over the holes,and then paint thick, several layers over the repair. 
sorry did i say all that 
..really if the fit of the quarters are nice and the holes are repairable,just weld them up with patches, remove the bad metal and put new in.or you could get a new lower section.just dont bondo it. 
