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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1058391
08/25/11 11:44 AM
08/25/11 11:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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also, most diplomats/5th ave's typically have 2.24 rear gears...the 2.45 are a little more rare, mainly in cop cars (2.94 available in cop cars, too).
my 5th ave with it's original 318, 2.24 rear and low gear lockup 904 hit 2000 RPM at 75mph, and it was fine for cuising above 55mph....
when I put the 360/XE262, it pulled fine, was a little crabby below 55mph in top gear due to the low revs...
Last edited by patrick; 08/25/11 11:55 AM.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: 360view]
#1058393
08/25/11 06:47 PM
08/25/11 06:47 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I had a '75 Duster with a stock 318 and 2.45 rear gears in high school. Even the weak sister 2 bbl. 318 did a decent job around down and would boil the hides at will.
Where it really shined was a hilly 30 mile section of road that I traveled to a neighboring town most ever Friday night. No problems with 100+ mph sustained speed and the a/c running cold the whole way.
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1058395
08/26/11 06:05 PM
08/26/11 06:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,587
St. John's Newfoundland
440newport
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,587
St. John's Newfoundland
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Quote:
What rear gears would a 78 Volare 4dr with a factory 360, auto and 8 1/4" have?
If I had to guess I would say 2.45's. All 3 V8 F body 8 1/4's that I've had were 2.45.
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: 440newport]
#1058396
08/27/11 07:12 AM
08/27/11 07:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
What rear gears would a 78 Volare 4dr with a factory 360, auto and 8 1/4" have?
If I had to guess I would say 2.45's. All 3 V8 F body 8 1/4's that I've had were 2.45.
Hmmm... thats what i was gathering from the above posts. That would explain the killer mileage i got in that car... i didn't know a 360 could get that kind ov mileage. It wasn't exactly slow off the line either. It really picked up after 30, but off the line i wasn't unimpressed for a bone stock grampa car...
I actually won a couple road races in that car. All i did was lower it with 255/50/VR 15 tires. It had legs... . . .
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1058397
08/27/11 02:31 PM
08/27/11 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
OP
Senior Management
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OP
Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Quote:
Quote:
Please stay away from the "engine should run at peak torque rpm blah blah blah" uneducated BS. We all know that's not true in the real world. If it were true, our cars would get amazing mileage at 4000 rpm.
Gee, didn't know it bugged you so much. Thanks for the underhanded compliment.
If you paid attention to what I said in those types of posts, I always used the caveat "within reason" of rpm range, being that even an uneducated BSer can tell that a 4000 rpm torque peak is a stupid place to run a cruise rpm.
That was in no way a compliment. You read that theory somewhere and it stuck in your head. It does not apply to daily driven street vehicles.
DO NOT try to compare stationary engines to vehicle engines. The RPM seldom varies on stationaries and the load is fairly constant, quite the opposite of a street car.
The Imperial made peak torque at 3200 rpm. The car will NOT get it's best mileage at 85 mph. Don't try to convince me otherwise. You'll simply prove yourself a fool. The car is much happier cruising 60 mph at 2200 rpm.
Now, get that garbage out of your head and feel free to excuse yourself from my thread.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1058398
08/27/11 04:53 PM
08/27/11 04:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 173
Milano, Italia
FK5
member
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member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 173
Milano, Italia
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What rear gears would a 78 Volare 4dr with a factory 360, auto and 8 1/4" have?
If I had to guess I would say 2.45's. All 3 V8 F body 8 1/4's that I've had were 2.45.
Hmmm... thats what i was gathering from the above posts. That would explain the killer mileage i got in that car... i didn't know a 360 could get that kind ov mileage. It wasn't exactly slow off the line either. It really picked up after 30, but off the line i wasn't unimpressed for a bone stock grampa car...
I actually won a couple road races in that car. All i did was lower it with 255/50/VR 15 tires. It had legs... . . .
Did the 360 have a 904 or 727? Whatever the new equivalents (999 or 998) are. The newer 904 variants had the lower first gear just to match up with the highway gears.
I have a 1982 Imperial with the anemic 140 hp efi 318 and 2.24 rear. It isn't too bad off the line because of the lower first gear. It ran great on the highway and could get some crazy mileage 24-26 mpg straight highway. It got about 17-18 mixed and that is in NYC rush hour.
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: DennisH ]
#1058400
08/27/11 05:01 PM
08/27/11 05:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
OP
Senior Management
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OP
Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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That made me think of the Top Gear episode where Jeremy Clarkson put a Vette in 5th and went from 0 to 175 in a single gear.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: feets]
#1058401
08/27/11 06:48 PM
08/27/11 06:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 397
Ozona, Texas
Paladin
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 397
Ozona, Texas
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Feets,
This is something my sons and I have discussed before, as I like keeping "long legs" in my '71 R/T as well as my other vehicles. Here are some random thoughts, for what its worth:
-Someone brought up the early-mid 1990's Roadmasters. The same could be said for the 9C1 Caprices I drove during that era. Though they were in itself a bit lighter, once all of our equipment was added they weighed more than the Roadmaster. These vehicles got some really good gas mileage, high 20s at a steady highway cruise. They had something like a 3.08 rear and that steep TH700R4 overdrive
-A better example might be a Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham of the same era. These came with around a 3.23 towing package and were very close to the weight of your Imperial. Their mileage was not quite as good as the Roadmasters and our Caprices.
-Something to think about in reference to your Imperial is the corresponding aerodynamics. At speeds over 70 MPH, it has been my experience that the drag coefficient and frontal area makes a real difference in fuel mileage. Then again, you are running a 440 V8 with a lot more torque than an LT1 Chebby. Another observation of mine was that engines with peak torque down low are usually more efficent as far as gas mileage goes, if all other things are equal.
Finally, and not to steal my younger son's thunder, we just finished a run from Ozona to Annapolis in his '71 Charger SE. It is a 383 Magnum with stock innards, 727, and we installed a 2.76:1 Sure Grip unit in the rear end. It has headers and dual exhuast, a Pertronix ignition with our own advance curve, a Quadrajet I set up for him, and a low restrictive air cleaner. Our best for the trip was 18.7 MPG at around 75 MPH, with a couple of 80-85 MPH bursts.
May God bless America,
Paladin
1971 Dodge Charger R/T
1977 Chrysler Cordoba A35
1979 Dodge Lil� Red Express
1981 Chevrolet Corvette
1985 Chevrolet Corvette
1986 Chevrolet Corvette Roadster
1994 Lincoln Mark VIII
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Sport V10
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: Paladin]
#1058402
08/27/11 08:55 PM
08/27/11 08:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
OP
Senior Management
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OP
Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Cool! The Paladin lives!  Good to see you again. Now, I KNOW you only did the 80 to 85 mph runs where it was LEGAL, right? Heaven forbid you should ever break the law.  That Charger is looking good. The license plate is fitting. TMF = Tough MF'er. I hope your son is doing well in MD and has the Charger protected from the storm.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: FK5]
#1058403
08/28/11 08:10 AM
08/28/11 08:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What rear gears would a 78 Volare 4dr with a factory 360, auto and 8 1/4" have?
If I had to guess I would say 2.45's. All 3 V8 F body 8 1/4's that I've had were 2.45.
Hmmm... thats what i was gathering from the above posts. That would explain the killer mileage i got in that car... i didn't know a 360 could get that kind ov mileage. It wasn't exactly slow off the line either. It really picked up after 30, but off the line i wasn't unimpressed for a bone stock grampa car...
I actually won a couple road races in that car. All i did was lower it with 255/50/VR 15 tires. It had legs... . . .
Did the 360 have a 904 or 727? Whatever the new equivalents (999 or 998) are. The newer 904 variants had the lower first gear just to match up with the highway gears.
I have a 1982 Imperial with the anemic 140 hp efi 318 and 2.24 rear. It isn't too bad off the line because of the lower first gear. It ran great on the highway and could get some crazy mileage 24-26 mpg straight highway. It got about 17-18 mixed and that is in NYC rush hour.
I am 99% positive it was a 727. That car was untouched and bone-stock... everything was HD in it. It was a special order car (i bought it from the first owners grandson) and the guy wanted the fastest Mopar car possible in 1978.
I'll say this though... the 70 Challenger project is a go, and after driving a 96 Mustang GT 5spd for the last 4 years and the memories ov that Volare, plus ideas from this thread, the car is getting 2.76 gears in the 8 3/4". I wish i could get higher gears... something around 2.5 for the 8 3/4". At least till i can afford a REAL OD 5 or 6 speed (read: no time soon).
My goal is simple, while fast and stupid powerful is fun (and i have the parts handy to do that) i will drive it more if it gets better mileage. I need to cut down my fleet/clean out my driveway, build or buy a commuter DD, and do SOMETHING with this poor Challenger after sitting 12 years. I'm gonna kill as many birds with one stone as i can. Its light enough it'll still be plenty fast.
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1058404
08/28/11 10:12 AM
08/28/11 10:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,151
Cruising!
QuickDodge
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,151
Cruising!
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Running a 3.55 rear axle gear with a 500 or 518 automatic transmissions will give an overall ratio just under 2.5, so you get the performance advantage of a 3.55 and the economy of a 2.45 axle. It's the best of both worlds! (running an 833OD 4 speed will yield a similar result)
Personally, I'd run the 500 trans if it's strong enough for your intended use. (It's based off the 904) These had lock-up converters and they had the lower first gear ratio. With the lower first gear ratio, I'd run a 2.92 or 3.23 instead of a 3.55 gear.
Last edited by QuickDodge; 08/28/11 10:14 AM.
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Re: lowest reasonable highway rpm for a 440?
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1058405
09/05/11 10:46 AM
09/05/11 10:46 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 619
nj
JAMESDART
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 619
nj
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i started to read some, but couldnt make it through all the posts.  my car is probably around 3500 but i dont think a few hundred lbs will make a huge difference. i am running 3.73s and a t56 with .5 od. as long as i keep it above 1,000 rpm its fine. it will hold speed up hills and still be able to accelerate. 65 mph is around 1500, 80 1900 rpm. it really likes 65 mph. plenty of people said rpm that low wouldnt work. right now im running a holley 3310 and i think the secondaries open somewhere between 75-80 and mpg is cut in half. i just figured that out when i took it to work the other night. i kept a small cam thinking i wanted to keep some good torque down low, and its not a strip car. i built it for road trips. took it to the power tour kickoff this year and i got 19 mpg every tank on the highway just 2 weeks after i did the bb and t56 swap, with wife and kid packed up and the trunk packed full of junk. 3,000 mile round trip. the mill is a smogger 400 with fresh rings, bearings, the small summit cam, older rebuit 906 heads shim head gaskets, 383 steel crank balanced for the 400 headers and a performer intake. its pretty much just a stock engine. this was a temporary mill as i wasnt sure how it was going to behave with the .5 od. i didnt want to spend a lot of cash and still have to make changes. i think higher compression would only help along with more cubes. eventually id like to build a 451 for it. ill probably stick with a small cam, i like how tame it sounds.
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