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hemi build up? #104412
08/13/08 06:59 PM
08/13/08 06:59 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
FASTFISH420 Offline OP
mopar
FASTFISH420  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
I was thinking about building a pump gas hemi,that has some good cubic inch,something that is not going to break the bank,that is reliable,and makes good power.

The hemi builders can chime in and give me some ideas and maybe some $$$ options.never built a hemi.I have done the 572 wedge stuff and and the high end small block stuff,but never the hemi.

would like to be over 500 cube,cast or aluminum block?decent set of flowing heads.single cast manifold,dominator,pump gas friendly,maybe even possible pro-charger one day..what would be the best head to use?would like to make 800 horsepower.


1969 Barracuda 8 second all/motor small block 2014 Shelby GT500 Mustang Uratchko Racing Engines www.URE-RACING.com
Re: hemi build up? [Re: FASTFISH420] #104413
08/13/08 08:05 PM
08/13/08 08:05 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
FASTFISH420 Offline OP
mopar
FASTFISH420  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
hello?where are all the hemi guys?


1969 Barracuda 8 second all/motor small block 2014 Shelby GT500 Mustang Uratchko Racing Engines www.URE-RACING.com
Re: hemi build up? [Re: FASTFISH420] #104414
08/13/08 09:14 PM
08/13/08 09:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Defbob Offline
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Defbob  Offline
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Norwich CT USA
if you can fork the coin, go for the aluminum block, KB is best. Stage V heads ported from Modern Cylinder Head. I'd go with Indy's intake if hood clearance is an issue and you want to use a single carb. go for a 4.5" bore by 4.5" stroke. .650-.700 cam. Stage V rockers are best standard config gear (top fuel uses them)

Since you might go with a procharger later on, get a good rotating assembly. Most good cranks are expensive but worth it, Callie, kellog, bryant, etc. Rods: Manley pro series I-beams or Oliver Billet rods, or Childs and Albert.

Re: hemi build up? [Re: FASTFISH420] #104415
08/13/08 09:23 PM
08/13/08 09:23 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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HPMike Offline
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NJ-USA
Might not be cheap, but here is how I would go about it.

Shortblock.

=New iron World block.
-Callies/Crower crank
-Oliver rods.
-Pistons- several mfgs with excellent Hemi inventory.

Heads;

-Give a call to Jeff at Modern and have him set you up with a set of CNC'ed heads.
- Barton/T&D rocker setup.

Intake

Ported Barton crossram with a set of Dale Cubic prepped SS carbs. There are better induction setups out there, I just like crossrams, especially on a Hemi.

These are some of the items I would choose. Not a budget build, by any means, but not bank breaking either.

MB

Re: hemi build up? [Re: FASTFISH420] #104416
08/13/08 09:25 PM
08/13/08 09:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 554
Florida
65HemiCoronet Offline
mopar
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Florida
I don't think you can say "hemi" and "not break the bank" in the same sentence.........


Yeah, it's got a hemi........a REAL hemi.
Re: hemi build up? [Re: FASTFISH420] #104417
08/13/08 09:31 PM
08/13/08 09:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
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smokinwoody Offline
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somwhere
Im wanting to build a 572 HEMI myself..

I have the Callies 4.5 crank..
may go with the new world products aluminum block
definately the stageV heads from Modern Cyl
pump gas a must
and converted Hilborns to electronic injection with stacks that will stick out of my 63 Dodge with the engine slammed back as far as I can get it without altering the firewall

I figure about 30k

Re: hemi build up? [Re: 65HemiCoronet] #104418
08/13/08 09:35 PM
08/13/08 09:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,587
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis Offline
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Great Neck,LI,new york
Quote:

I don't think you can say "hemi" and "not break the bank" in the same sentence.........


You beet me to it!! By the way,How iz inda bank??????

Last edited by hemi-itis; 08/13/08 09:36 PM.

HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: hemi build up? [Re: hemi-itis] #104419
08/13/08 09:54 PM
08/13/08 09:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Defbob Offline
master
Defbob  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Norwich CT USA
here is the info on my street motor;

572ci Aluminum Hemi

HP Performance Aluminum block 4.5" bore
Stage V Racing heads from Modern
Stage V Dual Quad intake
Bryant Billet Crank 4.5"
Oliver Billet Rods 7.1"
Diamond 11:1 pistons
Calico Coated bearings
Milodon dual swinging pickup
Mopar Tach Drive distr
pair of OOTB Holley 830's
Mopar aluminum water pump and housing
.664" 272 @ .050 street roller cam

Re: hemi build up? [Re: hemi-itis] #104420
08/13/08 10:01 PM
08/13/08 10:01 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
FASTFISH420 Offline OP
mopar
FASTFISH420  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
572 is a good combo,done this with a wedge and worked great.I like the cross-ram look,but would rather go with a single 4 set-up.hood clearence isn't a problem..I was thinking also on the stage V stuff,or just cnc'd mopar heads,by modern..I like the barton individual rocker set-up,but trying to stay away from high dollar rockers like those.the stage v stuff would probably work fine

I will have to make some phone calls to get prices..


1969 Barracuda 8 second all/motor small block 2014 Shelby GT500 Mustang Uratchko Racing Engines www.URE-RACING.com
Re: hemi build up? [Re: smokinwoody] #104421
08/13/08 10:04 PM
08/13/08 10:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 554
Florida
65HemiCoronet Offline
mopar
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Posts: 554
Florida
Quote:

Im wanting to build a 572 HEMI myself..

I have the Callies 4.5 crank..
may go with the new world products aluminum block
definately the stageV heads from Modern Cyl
pump gas a must
and converted Hilborns to electronic injection with stacks that will stick out of my 63 Dodge with the engine slammed back as far as I can get it without altering the firewall

I figure about 30k




You mean like this......?


Yeah, it's got a hemi........a REAL hemi.
Re: hemi build up? [Re: 65HemiCoronet] #104422
08/13/08 10:18 PM
08/13/08 10:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
S
smokinwoody Offline
I Live Here
smokinwoody  Offline
I Live Here
S

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
Quote:

Quote:

Im wanting to build a 572 HEMI myself..

I have the Callies 4.5 crank..
may go with the new world products aluminum block
definately the stageV heads from Modern Cyl
pump gas a must
and converted Hilborns to electronic injection with stacks that will stick out of my 63 Dodge with the engine slammed back as far as I can get it without altering the firewall

I figure about 30k




You mean like this......?




that be it but with taller stacks...

Re: hemi build up? [Re: smokinwoody] #104423
08/13/08 10:20 PM
08/13/08 10:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Defbob Offline
master
Defbob  Offline
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Norwich CT USA
much taller!

Re: hemi build up? [Re: smokinwoody] #104424
08/13/08 10:27 PM
08/13/08 10:27 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,087
Northeast, Arkansas
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Dodgeman67 Offline
super stock
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Posts: 1,087
Northeast, Arkansas
Quote:

Im wanting to build a 572 HEMI myself..

I have the Callies 4.5 crank..
may go with the new world products aluminum block
definately the stageV heads from Modern Cyl
pump gas a must
and converted Hilborns to electronic injection with stacks that will stick out of my 63 Dodge with the engine slammed back as far as I can get it without altering the firewall

I figure about 30k




[Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] did you say 30k, is that close to $30,000?

Man oh man I got to get another job.

When things get slow I have some hemi parts and want to get some ideas of a build up, but after this thread I may need to re-think this whole hemi thing.

Re: hemi build up? [Re: Defbob] #104425
08/13/08 10:27 PM
08/13/08 10:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
S
smokinwoody Offline
I Live Here
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Quote:

much taller!







Re: hemi build up? [Re: Dodgeman67] #104426
08/13/08 10:33 PM
08/13/08 10:33 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
FASTFISH420 Offline OP
mopar
FASTFISH420  Offline OP
mopar

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Central,Ohio
I agree on the 30k reply.I think you can build one lot cheaper than that.The fuel injection and stacks plus manifold,might be what spikes the price on his build...

I had alittle over 20k in the 572 wedge motor I built acouple years ago,and it was packed full of good parts,jesel,callies,indy,etc..I know it was a wedge,but geeze!


1969 Barracuda 8 second all/motor small block 2014 Shelby GT500 Mustang Uratchko Racing Engines www.URE-RACING.com
Re: hemi build up? [Re: FASTFISH420] #104427
08/13/08 10:39 PM
08/13/08 10:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Defbob Offline
master
Defbob  Offline
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Norwich CT USA
you can build a Hemi for under $25K

mine is going to be under $25K with the aluminum block

Re: hemi build up? [Re: Defbob] #104428
08/14/08 09:03 AM
08/14/08 09:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 554
WI.
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Scotts71chall Offline
mopar
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S

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WI.
Any chance I could get a picture of the stage v intake from the bottom, like in up side down?
Defbob, what body is that going in?

Re: hemi build up? [Re: Scotts71chall] #104429
02/14/09 05:58 PM
02/14/09 05:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Defbob Offline
master
Defbob  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
My '71 Challenger

5025106-3-3-07-02.jpg (173 downloads)
Re: hemi build up? [Re: Defbob] #104430
02/14/09 06:45 PM
02/14/09 06:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Rock Springs
I shopped around and save some money by looking for good deals. I went with a new World Iron block. Aluminum is nice, and light, but expect to be 30-40 hp down from the same Iron block
So here is a run down of what I went with everything new except the pistons.

-4.5 bore World block $2500
-4.5 stroke 4340 crank $700
-I beam pro rods $600
-Weisco pistons $150 slightly used from board member
-DLI rockers stands etc ($1800 from board member
-MP/Edelbrock head $3300 + CNC ported from Modern Cylinder head.. The flow 460cfm or so. also setup for correct springs to match my cam spec ready to go.

I went with a solid flat tappet cam which was a custom deal, and some EDM Howards AMC lifters. Im just waiting from the machine shop to balance, finish bore, fit all clearances etc.
I still need new Oil pump, oil pump drive, timing set, push rods, gaskets rings, and bearings which my machinist will supply upon completion of machine work. Engine will have either a MP cross ram, or Indy setup. Total price should come well under $20K so compared to the last wedge I built, the Hemi is just as cheap, although my wedge as aluminum Indy block, and the price diff between the two payed for the more expensive parts like rocker gear etc.. I have no idea for power, the heads are good enough to make 800+HP IMO. Should be right there..And be streetable as well.

BTW
I have pics of any and all this stuff, flow sheets etc, if you want to see anything let me know

Last edited by Rapid_Transit; 02/14/09 06:47 PM.

[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: hemi build up? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #104431
02/14/09 08:00 PM
02/14/09 08:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 751
Southington Ct.
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turbobitt Offline
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Southington Ct.
This is what I did on my street build up,

World products block prepped by Barton, Honed to match fit the pistons, Align bored, decked, and lifter bushings installed. About $3900.
1 - Comp roller cam and lifters
2 - K1 4.5 stroke crank from Dram
3 - K1 7.0 chevy journal, width rods, .990 pin from Dram
4 - Diamond 4.5" 11 to 1 comp pistons from Dram
5 - Indy CNC ported Legend heads
6 - Milodon pan modified for single static pickup
7 - HV pump and using the pre-machined oil suction in the front of the block.
8 - Block did not require any additional clearancing for the 4.5 stroke.

A couple of things that I also will comment on. If you use a 7.0" rod, your pistons won't require an oil support rail because the .990 pin won't break into the oil ring land.
I don't know what the Indy head pricing is compared to everyone else but it is worth checking into since there heads have integrated stands and they may offer a package deal with the rockers. If you choose this route, by them from a supporting vender and not direct.
The K1 crank and rods are about the best budget crank and rods out there. I have had eagle and other supporting venders stuff that I won't mention so I have a good idea on comparison.


1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: hemi build up? [Re: FASTFISH420] #104432
02/14/09 09:33 PM
02/14/09 09:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Quote:

hello?where are all the hemi guys?




The is the HOT-STREET Hemi I built for the book that will be released in June (How to Build a Max-Performance Hemi". This picture shows EFI but carbs work just as as well.
It's also shows coil-on-plug but a distributor would work just fine too.

This is a 572" Hemi:
800 RPM idle at 14" vacuum
700 ft lbs at 3500 RPM (curve was very flat)
725 HP at 6200.
On 91 octane but it should be fine with 87 or 89, just haven't tried that yet.

World block, unported Stage-V heads.

With a hydraulic roller would be virtually maintenance free.

Re: hemi build up? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #104433
02/14/09 09:45 PM
02/14/09 09:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
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Sonora CA
World block, Scat 4.5" crank, 9.5: pistons, etc...
Typical rotating assembly - nothing trick or expensive.

The only "special stuff" to the basic motor was:
* A very smooth plateau-hone using a gapless top ring and a "hooked groove" second. (Yes - the hone was more expensive to do). Pistons install with a "seating powder" not WD40 or oil.
* Cam specs are different, but not any more expensive.
* Heads only had a valve job.
* KB rocker stands and Comp valve train.
* Used a new "reverse flow" water pump from Meziere. (Had to drill air-bleed holes in the heads to use reverse flow).

This rings seated in 10 minutes and have produced very good results for me for a street engine. Other engines I've built with these rings really keep the oil clean after many miles. Leak down is nil.

The cam has a very wide lobe separation (114-116) with nominal lift (.600). Durations are 240-ish intake and 250-ish exhaust (@ .050). This is what gives this engine such good manners from idle on.

Re: hemi build up? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #104434
02/14/09 10:04 PM
02/14/09 10:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
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You can go really inexpensive if 800 is really where you want to be. Going forced will pile the dollars on right along with the power. To save every buck you can here's what I'd do.

Scat 4.5 crank
H beam 7.1 rod
11.5:1 piston from any of the big companies with a standard 1/16 1/16 3/16 moly ring package
SV replacement head with basic port work (bowls-port entry stuff) stainless valves
Indy roller rockers on steel stands
mega, or world block Iron. Move the pickup over and use 5/8 pickup, keep it internal for cost.
solid flat tappet with chain drive
Indy small plenum 4500 single 4
OTB holley 1050
steel tray and milodon pan

It'll make over 800 and be about as cheap as you can go. Going forced means throw all that out the window and get ready to get off the hip

Re: hemi build up? [Re: dthemi] #104435
02/15/09 12:11 AM
02/15/09 12:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate Offline
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Hemi Allstate  Offline
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Mt. Eden Ky.
My build is similar to others here. 572"

World aluminum block
Block honed and prepped @ FHO for CP 10.5 pistons
Diamond rings
Stage V replacement heads CNC ported @ MCH
Stage V rockers T&D shafts, Hi Tech stands
K1 crank
K1 7.100 rods
Comp solid FT Nitrided and using Howard's EDM lifters
.620" .630" 258* and 263* @ .050 108 LSA
Milodon dual swinging pu pan HV pump
MP cross ram with FHO lids or Indy single intake
Probably 2 770 SS carbs
MP tach drive dist.
Chain drive for cam
MP water pump assy

I am not sure what HP level to expect.


http://marsh-racing.com/Mark%20Mahorney-Allstate.htm
1996 Ram 1500 Sport
1968 road runner
1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
Re: hemi build up? [Re: Hemi Allstate] #104436
02/15/09 12:49 PM
02/15/09 12:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
ONTARIO,CANADA
6
604 Hemi GTX Offline
mopar
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6

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ONTARIO,CANADA
Hemi Allstate, Just wondering what the stage v cnced heads flowed after they were ported? Planning on building a 604ci hemi for my GTX and not sure which heads to buy.

Re: hemi build up? [Re: 604 Hemi GTX] #104437
02/15/09 01:06 PM
02/15/09 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
Mopar_Rich  Offline
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Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
I also used the Stage-V replacement heads. With only a good valve job and smoothing the seat areas (no additional porting) they flowed 388 (int)and 277 (exh), measured at .700 lift.

Re: hemi build up? [Re: 604 Hemi GTX] #104438
02/15/09 01:39 PM
02/15/09 01:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
T
The Shadow Offline
top fuel
The Shadow  Offline
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T

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Posts: 2,175
Duloc
Quote:

Hemi Allstate, Just wondering what the stage v cnced heads flowed after they were ported? Planning on building a 604ci hemi for my GTX and not sure which heads to buy.



Contact Tim at FHO.
He's doing cnc'd stage v's. He has programs to get the replacement heads flowing 470cfm and his millenium heads flow almost 600cfm.

Re: hemi build up? [Re: The Shadow] #104439
02/15/09 03:00 PM
02/15/09 03:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
ONTARIO,CANADA
6
604 Hemi GTX Offline
mopar
604 Hemi GTX  Offline
mopar
6

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Posts: 501
ONTARIO,CANADA
WOW.....that's about what i was hoping for.Thanks

Re: hemi build up? [Re: 604 Hemi GTX] #104440
02/15/09 08:00 PM
02/15/09 08:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate Offline
master
Hemi Allstate  Offline
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Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Quote:

Hemi Allstate, Just wondering what the stage v cnced heads flowed after they were ported? Planning on building a 604ci hemi for my GTX and not sure which heads to buy.





542GTX,
I would have to say that mine are not quite up to the numbers I am seeing posted here! That said, I am sure that they will get the job done. I know there are differences in flow benches as well.
Here is the specs.

5027833-StageVCNCMCH.jpg (106 downloads)

http://marsh-racing.com/Mark%20Mahorney-Allstate.htm
1996 Ram 1500 Sport
1968 road runner
1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
Re: hemi build up? [Re: Hemi Allstate] #104441
02/15/09 08:53 PM
02/15/09 08:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
ONTARIO,CANADA
6
604 Hemi GTX Offline
mopar
604 Hemi GTX  Offline
mopar
6

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 501
ONTARIO,CANADA
Thanks Hemi Allstate, Thats roughly what i would be hoping for. my motor will be a pump gas 604ci.

Re: hemi build up? [Re: 604 Hemi GTX] #104442
02/15/09 09:13 PM
02/15/09 09:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
master
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Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
New MP/Edelbrock castings



[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: hemi build up? [Re: Bob_Coomer] #104443
02/15/09 10:40 PM
02/15/09 10:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
sunroofgtx Offline
I Live Here
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Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
I got a buddie that just bought in a package deal, a fresh 572 with all the goodies long block, with virgin Mopar heads separete, but the long block is very nice.. He maybe looking to broom !!


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