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thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP #1031704
07/13/11 11:12 AM
07/13/11 11:12 AM
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Carson City, NV
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babarracuda Offline OP
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On the street, does anyone have experience changing to a thermoquad. I want better mileage and throttle response especially on the road. I am aware of the weight of my right foot, so don't tell me to not open the secondaries. Did you like the way a TQ drives? I am planning on having it tuned by an expert because I am aware of the famous secondary bog.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: babarracuda] #1031705
07/13/11 11:38 AM
07/13/11 11:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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I doubt you will see much differnce in MPG w/ a TQ. Unless your DP is way out of tune. Plus factor in you'll have to pay somebody to set it up then you have to figure how many miles you have to drive to make up any savings. Kind of like the fools that got rid of their paid for 20-22mpg cars to by a hybrid that gets 40's. How far would one need to drive to start saving money?


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: babarracuda] #1031706
07/13/11 12:57 PM
07/13/11 12:57 PM
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Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
471Magnum Offline
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TQ is going to give you way better mileage around town.

Throttle response will depend on a lot of factors. A DP can mask a lot of problems by just literally dumping fuel on it.

Performance and driveability can be great with a TQ, but they are a bit of a pain to tune. Bend this, straighten that. They were designed to be somewhat tamper resistant, so you can't just turn a screw here or there. Definitely need to do your homework.

I've always considered myself to be a Holley guy, but I'm currently working through my first TQ tuning experience and learning as I go.


-Jim

I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.

Currently Mopar-less
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: 471Magnum] #1031707
07/13/11 01:13 PM
07/13/11 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,644
So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
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For the street I'd go with the T-quad; really crisp throttle response, strong vac signal, and I was happy with the MPG. Demonsizzler here on the board did mine.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: 471Magnum] #1031708
07/13/11 01:16 PM
07/13/11 01:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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"TQ is going to give you way better mileage around town."

how's that? the engine is going to pull the needed fuel amount reguardless of carb. Now I can see it you are running way to fat primarys...then yeah. I ran a 750DP on a very mild 340. Not sure about "city" driving but it got 17 or so on the hwy at 70 w/ 3.55 gears. I also ran a Proformed main body 750DP on a supercharged 440 managed 12-13mpg hwy running 70 w/ 3.91's. Both cars were automatics. I doubt the TQ would have been "way" better

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1031709
07/13/11 01:36 PM
07/13/11 01:36 PM
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Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
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Sk. Canada
A well setup t quad will get better mileage. People went away from them due to reasons stated... hard to work on, plastic main bodies, etc. the theory is sound, 90% driving on the worlds smallest 2 bbl, with the flood gates behind it. The BOG is not hard to tune out, just tighten up the rear flapper spring.

All that being said, I'd much rather have the holley.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1031710
07/13/11 01:43 PM
07/13/11 01:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,644
So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
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I think it's a combination of the smaller primaries (higher velocity) and finer calibrations (needles & seat design), plus the vacuum secondaries. Even vs. a properly jetted Holley DP, I've had better MPG in town with a T-quad or Q-jet on the same motor.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: topside] #1031711
07/13/11 01:54 PM
07/13/11 01:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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I have a themoquad on my 440 and it runs great. Mileage and throttle response around town are very good. Tuned well, they offer great performance and driveability, tuned poorly and they'll make you want to throw it in the garbage can. I had to invest some time into getting mine tuned correctly, but once I got the choke and the secondaries setup properly, it was the next best thing to fuel injection. I drove my car to work every day spring-fall for 7 years with it setup like this.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: babarracuda] #1031712
07/13/11 02:14 PM
07/13/11 02:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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TQ vs DP? 2 different animals. TQ makes for a better street driver if MPG is factored in(usually) but doesn't offer near the tuneability of a Holley DP.
A Holley VS would be a better comparision.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1031713
07/13/11 02:27 PM
07/13/11 02:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,907
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
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This is going to be good , both in stupidity and the assine my male genitalia is bigger than yours, much like the 383 vs. 440 that is still raging ...

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: JohnRR] #1031714
07/13/11 03:26 PM
07/13/11 03:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,216
Under My Car
Mopar_Country Offline
pro stock
Mopar_Country  Offline
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Under My Car
Thermoquad! I have one on my ride and love it.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: babarracuda] #1031715
07/13/11 03:36 PM
07/13/11 03:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 122
Columbus, OH
Spanky Offline
member
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Columbus, OH
I had a smaller TQ on a 360 in my Warlock. Drove it around Columbus, OH for a couple of years & loved it once I got it set up. It did take quite a bit of messing around with to get it running right, but once it was setup, it stayed stayed running great. Not sure about fuel economy, but the phenolic resin bowl was nice, since I never ever had a problem with vaporlock.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Spanky] #1031716
07/13/11 03:55 PM
07/13/11 03:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
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Branson, Mo.
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joedust451 Offline
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Branson, Mo.
Smaller primaries will do better on gas then the larger, its not rocket sience, thats "only" if both carbs are tuned properly at the exact same AFR, if the 750dp is tuned lean on the primaries & the TQ is rich then yeah, the 750dp will most likely do better, Your demand is less on a smaller primary carb, the jets are smaller, less fuel, less air, better mileage, the intake also plays a role in it too, so does the cam. Its easy to figure out really, all your engine is is a vacuum pump that runs off combustion, it pulls in air/fuel & lets it out, if you restrict it, it'll consume less, a larger CI engine will demand more, thus consume more, Your engine will only pull what it needs, but on the other hand it "can" be controlled as to how much you want to give it.


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: joedust451] #1031717
07/13/11 05:56 PM
07/13/11 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,719
Space Station #5
471Magnum Offline
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The double pumper has the ability to give a massive pump shot in all four venturies as all four open in light throttle situations, which is great for big cams and heads with low port velocity and "city" type rpms. Great for getting a car out of the hole quickly, but lousy on fuel mileage.

In a steady state cruising situations, both could be tuned for equal fuel economy. Steady state is not what you're dealing with in around town. The dinky high velocity primaries are what is what makes the thermoquad inherently better and delivering fuel economy around town.

Likewise, both are capable of being absolute turds if they aren't tuned properly.


-Jim

I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.

Currently Mopar-less
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1031718
07/13/11 08:29 PM
07/13/11 08:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,213
Williamsport PA North Central ...
13ChargerR/T AWD Offline
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Quote:

TQ vs DP? 2 different animals. TQ makes for a better street driver if MPG is factored in(usually) but doesn't offer near the tuneability of a Holley DP.
A Holley VS would be a better comparision.




I tend to agree. Doing recently(because i like to get a new carb and intake set up myself on a mostly stock car) I think a TQ and a Holley Vac Secondary would be a closer comparison like say a TQ and a 3310 for instance.





Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: 471Magnum] #1031719
07/13/11 09:05 PM
07/13/11 09:05 PM
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Branson, Mo.
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joedust451 Offline
super gas
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Branson, Mo.
Quote:

The double pumper has the ability to give a massive pump shot in all four venturies as all four open in light throttle situations,




Where did you come up with this theory , "light throttle" situations, try more like "half throttle", unless your useing one of these holleys or any with 1.1 linkage.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/0-4224/10002/-1


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: 13ChargerR/T AWD] #1031720
07/13/11 09:10 PM
07/13/11 09:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
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joedust451 Offline
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Branson, Mo.
Quote:

Quote:

TQ vs DP? 2 different animals. TQ makes for a better street driver if MPG is factored in(usually) but doesn't offer near the tuneability of a Holley DP.
A Holley VS would be a better comparision.




I tend to agree. Doing recently(because i like to get a new carb and intake set up myself on a mostly stock car) I think a TQ and a Holley Vac Secondary would be a closer comparison like say a TQ and a 3310 for instance.




The TQ or QJ will still win over a squarebore carb, smaller primary bores get better mileage if the AFR is the same on both carbs. & you can make a 750dp get right at the same mileage as a 3310.

Last edited by joedust451; 07/13/11 09:11 PM.

75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: babarracuda] #1031721
07/13/11 10:48 PM
07/13/11 10:48 PM
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las vegas
70AARcuda Offline
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Quote:

On the street, does anyone have experience changing to a thermoquad. I want better mileage and throttle response especially on the road. I am aware of the weight of my right foot, so don't tell me to not open the secondaries. Did you like the way a TQ drives? I am planning on having it tuned by an expert because I am aware of the famous secondary bog.




thanks for dinner...


Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: joedust451] #1031722
07/13/11 11:41 PM
07/13/11 11:41 PM
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Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
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Quote:

The TQ or QJ will still win over a squarebore carb, smaller primary bores get better mileage if the AFR is the same on both carbs. & you can make a 750dp get right at the same mileage as a 3310.




if ther A/F ratio is the same for either carb, can you please explain why one will get better mileage over the other? same amount of air, same amount of fuel.

the one thing i could never get used to on a spread bore carb is how much further you need to push the gas pedal in normal driving to get the same acceleration as a square bore carb.


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031723
07/14/11 01:22 AM
07/14/11 01:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

The TQ or QJ will still win over a squarebore carb, smaller primary bores get better mileage if the AFR is the same on both carbs. & you can make a 750dp get right at the same mileage as a 3310.




if ther A/F ratio is the same for either carb, can you please explain why one will get better mileage over the other? same amount of air, same amount of fuel.

the one thing i could never get used to on a spread bore carb is how much further you need to push the gas pedal in normal driving to get the same acceleration as a square bore carb.




The smaller venturis are supposed to be more responsive to small changes in vacuum/load during normal driving, so they should respond more precisely to fine changes in throttle position as you would encounter during daily driving. FWIW I always found spread bore carbs to be more responsive when driving around town than square bore carbs.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031724
07/14/11 01:33 AM
07/14/11 01:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:



if ther A/F ratio is the same for either carb, can you please explain why one will get better mileage over the other? same amount of air, same amount of fuel.








BECAUSE the TQ does a BESTer job mixing air and fuel on the primary side than any other carb out there. Just-like EFI does a better job than any carb.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031725
07/14/11 07:15 AM
07/14/11 07:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
nielsville, minn.
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quickd100 Offline
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nielsville, minn.
Holley use a power valve, it's either on or off, there is no inbetween. A thermoquad uses vacuum controled spring loaded metering rods. This alone if tuned properly gives the mpg edge to the thermoquad. Dave

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1031726
07/14/11 08:10 AM
07/14/11 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The TQ or QJ will still win over a squarebore carb, smaller primary bores get better mileage if the AFR is the same on both carbs. & you can make a 750dp get right at the same mileage as a 3310.




if ther A/F ratio is the same for either carb, can you please explain why one will get better mileage over the other? same amount of air, same amount of fuel.

the one thing i could never get used to on a spread bore carb is how much further you need to push the gas pedal in normal driving to get the same acceleration as a square bore carb.




The smaller venturis are supposed to be more responsive to small changes in vacuum/load during normal driving, so they should respond more precisely to fine changes in throttle position as you would encounter during daily driving. FWIW I always found spread bore carbs to be more responsive when driving around town than square bore carbs.




just here but since the TQ has much smaller primarys wouldn't that make the secondarys open faster? As mentioned before by me and others, a tuned carb is going to use the fuel/air it needs to push the car. What about a 6-pack? It runs off a small 2bbl most of the time.
Anybody got andy real world numbers?

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031727
07/14/11 09:53 AM
07/14/11 09:53 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
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joedust451 Offline
super gas
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Branson, Mo.
Quote:

Quote:

The TQ or QJ will still win over a squarebore carb, smaller primary bores get better mileage if the AFR is the same on both carbs. & you can make a 750dp get right at the same mileage as a 3310.




if ther A/F ratio is the same for either carb, can you please explain why one will get better mileage over the other? same amount of air, same amount of fuel.

the one thing i could never get used to on a spread bore carb is how much further you need to push the gas pedal in normal driving to get the same acceleration as a square bore carb.




Its not really the same amount, i'm only talking on the primary side, Who drives around at WOT all the time, you have less air/fuel being drawn in on the smaller primary carb staying on the primaries, but yhou can still adjust the AFR to where you want it, now why wouldn't you think if the AFR was the same on both carbs, that the larger throttle bores would get the same mileage, The engine is able too pull in more air at the same throttle possition as the smaller primary carb,, lets say 1/4 on both carbs, so the larger throttle bodied carb lets the engine draw more air, more air needs more fuel, resalting in more consumption, its not a brain teaser.

But i do agree with you on how the larger primary carb feels better under moderate throttle (more responsive) then the smaller primary carb


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: joedust451] #1031728
07/14/11 10:41 AM
07/14/11 10:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,465
Carson City, NV
B
babarracuda Offline OP
pro stock
babarracuda  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,465
Carson City, NV
Thamks guys! I wantr to take some trips of 300-400 miles. The better gas mileage is important. Once I have the carb setup, I will need less gas. I havwe the money now, but may be tighter in a year or two. I hqave an Innovate A/F setup so I will know what my mix is. So far the DP is not good on gas. We'll see after I get it runnung with my new master cylinder, cam and power steering. Aging is not for sissies.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1031729
07/14/11 11:13 AM
07/14/11 11:13 AM
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Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
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Sk. Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The TQ or QJ will still win over a squarebore carb, smaller primary bores get better mileage if the AFR is the same on both carbs. & you can make a 750dp get right at the same mileage as a 3310.




if ther A/F ratio is the same for either carb, can you please explain why one will get better mileage over the other? same amount of air, same amount of fuel.

the one thing i could never get used to on a spread bore carb is how much further you need to push the gas pedal in normal driving to get the same acceleration as a square bore carb.




The smaller venturis are supposed to be more responsive to small changes in vacuum/load during normal driving, so they should respond more precisely to fine changes in throttle position as you would encounter during daily driving. FWIW I always found spread bore carbs to be more responsive when driving around town than square bore carbs.




just here but since the TQ has much smaller primarys wouldn't that make the secondarys open faster? As mentioned before by me and others, a tuned carb is going to use the fuel/air it needs to push the car. What about a 6-pack? It runs off a small 2bbl most of the time.
Anybody got andy real world numbers?


I thought the center carb on a 6 pak was like a 500. Same as a 67 and down carter 4 bbl

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: RemCharger] #1031730
07/14/11 11:40 AM
07/14/11 11:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
"I thought the center carb on a 6 pak was like a 500. Same as a 67 and down carter 4 bbl"

It is but I've heard of people unhooking the oputboards for long drives...

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1031731
07/14/11 12:16 PM
07/14/11 12:16 PM
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Rug_Trucker Offline
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
Quote:

"I thought the center carb on a 6 pak was like a 500. Same as a 67 and down carter 4 bbl"

It is but I've heard of people unhooking the oputboards for long drives...




350.

TQ's are great if you fix the throttle shaft slop in the rebuild. Also buy an air door tool off of Doc.

My 511 '67 Cuda got 14mpg combined with the 6pak.























































































7 in the city, 7 on the highway!


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1031732
07/14/11 12:31 PM
07/14/11 12:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
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IL, Aurora
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ademon Offline
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IL, Aurora
I've had a bunch of t-quads, none needed the shafts redone, but these were off performance cars that i bet were removed early on in favor of a holley

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ademon] #1031733
07/14/11 12:47 PM
07/14/11 12:47 PM
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dogdays Offline
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The Holley 500 two-barrel is rated as a two-barrel, with more vacuum across it than the four barrel rating. I believe the four barrel rated at 1.5" depression and the two-barrel is rated at 3" depression. The correction factor is the square root of 2. So rated like a four-barrel, the 500 Holley is really a 354.
R.
This comes up about once a year.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dogdays] #1031734
07/14/11 01:18 PM
07/14/11 01:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
"TQ's are great if you fix the throttle shaft slop in the rebuild. Also buy an air door tool off of Doc.

My 511 '67 Cuda got 14mpg combined with the 6pak."

I noticed on the 1st 6-pack build (mild 440 w/ 528 solid) I was getting pretty good milage. This build is much more agressive and on the last trip to the track (22 miles) I avg'd about 13-14. Not bad considering I got on it a few times. This is mainly backroads (45mph) stopping in 4 small towns.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dogdays] #1031735
07/14/11 01:18 PM
07/14/11 01:18 PM
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Posts: 2,931
The TQ takes a lot to tune and is absolutly no comparison to a DP Holley. I tried to run a TQ and succeeded but in the end the Holley won out hands down in Performance. When you are talking tenth's of a second I will now stick with Holley.
PS in mileage try a Q jet easy to tune and reliable and with Chrysler linkage from 1985 up to 1988

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1031736
07/14/11 01:22 PM
07/14/11 01:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
R
Rug_Trucker Offline
I Live Here
Rug_Trucker  Offline
I Live Here
R

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
Quote:

"TQ's are great if you fix the throttle shaft slop in the rebuild. Also buy an air door tool off of Doc.

My 511 '67 Cuda got 14mpg combined with the 6pak."

I noticed on the 1st 6-pack build (mild 440 w/ 528 solid) I was getting pretty good milage. This build is much more agressive and on the last trip to the track (22 miles) I avg'd about 13-14. Not bad considering I got on it a few times. This is mainly backroads (45mph) stopping in 4 small towns.




Read down lower in my post. I got 7mpg. 3:23's .538-.5?? Crane solid cam.


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1031737
07/14/11 01:44 PM
07/14/11 01:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

"TQ's are great if you fix the throttle shaft slop in the rebuild. Also buy an air door tool off of Doc.

My 511 '67 Cuda got 14mpg combined with the 6pak."

I noticed on the 1st 6-pack build (mild 440 w/ 528 solid) I was getting pretty good milage. This build is much more agressive and on the last trip to the track (22 miles) I avg'd about 13-14. Not bad considering I got on it a few times. This is mainly backroads (45mph) stopping in 4 small towns.




Read down lower in my post. I got 7mpg. 3:23's .538-.5?? Crane solid cam.




I'm running .030 over 440 w/ a 588 solid roller, ported stage VI heads, 3800 stall and 3.91's. I think my good milage was do to a nice slow steady drive of 40-45mph. Not much stop/start and not much outboard action...

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: babarracuda] #1031738
07/14/11 09:36 PM
07/14/11 09:36 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,295
dark side of the moon
D
Dougsmopars Offline
top fuel
Dougsmopars  Offline
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D

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,295
dark side of the moon
My GTX had a 780 DP on it when i bought it. Made good power but didn't stay in tune. It was old and leaked and had other isues but over all not a bad carb. Milage was poor. Went with an 800 eddy thunder series. Good carb, took a little to get the stumble out as car has a big cam. Milage was decent, throttle responce was good but lacked that kick in the pant's you get when you open up a spread bore and those big secondaries come in. Just switched to an 850 TQ and love it. Milage is a tad better, throttle responce is crisp and at WOT hold on. Over all i prefer the TQ to any other street carb.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Dougsmopars] #1031739
07/14/11 10:14 PM
07/14/11 10:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,180
Willoughby Hills, Ohio
gd9704 Offline
super gas
gd9704  Offline
super gas

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,180
Willoughby Hills, Ohio
A well-tuned TQ is fun to drive. Demonsizzler worked his magic on mine and I'm very happy with it.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: gd9704] #1031740
07/15/11 11:29 AM
07/15/11 11:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,622
Millinocket, Maine
J
JonC Offline
master
JonC  Offline
master
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,622
Millinocket, Maine
I have a 850 TQ on my warmed 340 ebody and headers. When the secondaries kick in it feels like a passing gear. Have never compared it to anything else, gas mileage I have never checked. Don't care, it's not a daily driver.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Paul_Fancsali] #1031741
07/16/11 04:16 AM
07/16/11 04:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 384
Australia
M
Mcode69 Offline
enthusiast
Mcode69  Offline
enthusiast
M

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 384
Australia
Quote:

The TQ takes a lot to tune and is absolutly no comparison to a DP Holley. I tried to run a TQ and succeeded but in the end the Holley won out hands down in Performance. When you are talking tenth's of a second I will now stick with Holley.
PS in mileage try a Q jet easy to tune and reliable and with Chrysler linkage from 1985 up to 1988




If the holley won hands down in performance it means your TQ was WAY out of tune. I've had a 750DP and a TQ on the same engine and the difference was 11 mpg from the holley and 17 from the TQ around town.
Never saw any track times but the TQ had the holley by the butt dyno. And apart from that [and here's a name from the past] Ed Hamburger insisted that a TQ will have 2 tenths over a similar sized double pumper all day. As someone stated previously holley tend to cover up deficiencies in their design by making it rich, they CANNOT meter fuel properly at part throttle apart from all their other problems.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mcode69] #1031742
07/16/11 04:23 AM
07/16/11 04:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
G
goldmember Offline
master
goldmember  Offline
master
G

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
A holley DP is not calibrated for fuel mileage.If you tune it properly it wins hands down. TQ's have their place,and I have some in a box on a shelf.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: goldmember] #1031743
07/16/11 04:31 AM
07/16/11 04:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Online penguin-006
The village idiot's idiot
dIc dOc Deity !  Online Penguin-006
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
Well goldy ....don't let them take-up ALL that shelf-space ... I will help-you get rid of them ...no problemO.

I might be rolling through on I-75 sooner than expected !

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1031744
07/16/11 08:26 AM
07/16/11 08:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
I Live Here
gdonovan  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
Quote:

"TQ is going to give you way better mileage around town."

how's that? the engine is going to pull the needed fuel amount reguardless of carb.




Ever drive your car around with an O2 meter and a vacuum gauge?

Ran both a TQ and a Holley on my GTX, the Holley was atrocious when it came to transitions from circuit to circuit. Spent over a month trying to get the Holley to work as well as the TQ, it just could not do it due to the design.

Holleys really do cover flaws in their design with "more fuel" at least the one I was working on did.

For a race application I would not have a problem with either a TQ or Holley but for the street I'd run nothing but a TQ IMHO.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mcode69] #1031745
07/16/11 10:21 AM
07/16/11 10:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

The TQ takes a lot to tune and is absolutly no comparison to a DP Holley. I tried to run a TQ and succeeded but in the end the Holley won out hands down in Performance. When you are talking tenth's of a second I will now stick with Holley.
PS in mileage try a Q jet easy to tune and reliable and with Chrysler linkage from 1985 up to 1988




If the holley won hands down in performance it means your TQ was WAY out of tune. I've had a 750DP and a TQ on the same engine and the difference was 11 mpg from the holley and 17 from the TQ around town.
Never saw any track times but the TQ had the holley by the butt dyno. And apart from that [and here's a name from the past] Ed Hamburger insisted that a TQ will have 2 tenths over a similar sized double pumper all day. As someone stated previously holley tend to cover up deficiencies in their design by making it rich, they CANNOT meter fuel properly at part throttle apart from all their other problems.




Then the holley was way out of tune. No way the TQ is going to get 6mpg better. And the TQ was probablt a 1050 vs a 750 at the track...

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031746
07/16/11 11:55 AM
07/16/11 11:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Well goldy ....don't let them take-up ALL that shelf-space ... I will help-you get rid of them ...no problemO.

I might be rolling through on I-75 sooner than expected !




You BETTER hurry, Doc!! I may BEAT you to his STASH!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1031747
07/16/11 12:20 PM
07/16/11 12:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

I doubt you will see much differnce in MPG w/ a TQ. Unless your DP is way out of tune. Plus factor in you'll have to pay somebody to set it up then you have to figure how many miles you have to drive to make up any savings. Kind of like the fools that got rid of their paid for 20-22mpg cars to by a hybrid that gets 40's. How far would one need to drive to start saving money?




Mr. Y, at the strip, HOLLEYS are the NORM.
Unless, you have a mild combo, in a LIGHT vehicle
the DP suffers from some mileage penalty. And you need to run a SMALLER one (650) at that. WHO would want better mileage out of a mega-displacement motor anyway! The beauty of the TQ, is that besides it's generous airflow ratings, it's VERY tunable!! AND it can be bolted on (provided you have a TQ flanged intake) on ANY MOPAR motor (except the 6's, and as we speak someone will make manifolds for them TOO, eventually) and still perform WELL!! Great for the
street and a SHOCKER on the STRIP!! Oh, did I forget to mention, it DOES get BETTER MILEAGE than the DP!! So does the 6 pack !!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1031748
07/16/11 12:42 PM
07/16/11 12:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The TQ takes a lot to tune and is absolutly no comparison to a DP Holley. I tried to run a TQ and succeeded but in the end the Holley won out hands down in Performance. When you are talking tenth's of a second I will now stick with Holley.
PS in mileage try a Q jet easy to tune and reliable and with Chrysler linkage from 1985 up to 1988




If the holley won hands down in performance it means your TQ was WAY out of tune. I've had a 750DP and a TQ on the same engine and the difference was 11 mpg from the holley and 17 from the TQ around town.
Never saw any track times but the TQ had the holley by the butt dyno. And apart from that [and here's a name from the past] Ed Hamburger insisted that a TQ will have 2 tenths over a similar sized double pumper all day. As someone stated previously holley tend to cover up deficiencies in their design by making it rich, they CANNOT meter fuel properly at part throttle apart from all their other problems.




Then the holley was way out of tune. No way the TQ is going to get 6mpg better. And the TQ was probablt a 1050 vs a 750 at the track...




Holley DP's perform best WIDE-OPEN. The trick to them is matching the jets/shooters/idle air bleeds to the style of driving vs engine vacuum. Half the time they are OUT of calibration. TQ's, however, depend on actual engine vacuum to operate the jets and secy
air doors (held by spring tension). There is NO way you can "undercarb" or "overcarb" your motor!
Jetting adjustment are easy and you can tune from maximum mileage/torque to "all-out" horsepower, and anything in between. Not to say Holley's cannot get good mileage, it's just that TQ's do it a LOT EASIER!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031749
07/16/11 02:31 PM
07/16/11 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
It seems that many of you are forgetting that you don't drive on the street at exactly ONE throttle position.

Given one throttle position and one engine load you can make any carb perform great.
Now, when you get into the on/off throttle application, hills, different engine loads due to added weight in the vehicle, and the billions of other real world situations the design of the TQ will be able to give you better economy than a Holley DP.
Think about that Holley for a second. Move the throttle and it opens primary and secondary bores with both accelerator pumps dumping fuel.
The TQ opens the primaries and if the draw is strong enough it will begin opening the secondaries and back off as the load is eased. The pump will shoot fuel but not to the degree of the Holley.

On a drag strip or race car the Holley will be hard to beat. The TQ could hold it's own but that would require an expert's touch.

When I was playing with carbs I could normally get the best performance (butt dyno) out of a Holley. However, once tuned to performance the Holley was way behind the AFB and TQ when it came to street manners.
Since my cars are street cars I did not run Holley carbs for long.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031750
07/16/11 03:05 PM
07/16/11 03:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
G
goldmember Offline
master
goldmember  Offline
master
G

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
Let me know when you'll be passing through,I'll put the box on the University Ave overpass on the southbound side.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: goldmember] #1031751
07/16/11 03:34 PM
07/16/11 03:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,465
Carson City, NV
B
babarracuda Offline OP
pro stock
babarracuda  Offline OP
pro stock
B

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,465
Carson City, NV
I know several guys with TQ on their 360's that run SS. None of these guys thinks a 750DP will perform like a TQ. I realy don't care if a DP is faster at the races, I want to drive to see my cousin and old racing buddies at Famoso, San Luis Obispo and Simi Valley, CA. Some of the rants must be made without the brain in gear. A 1 3/8 primary VS. a 1 11/16 cannot pass the same amount of fuel. A small hole has better velosity than a large hole. These are not my ideas, just scientific facts. Why doesn't a Holley DP get the same mileage as an Edelbrock 750. Could it be metering rods instead of power valve? If you read my first post, I said I was going to have the carb setup, not screw it up with my lack of Thermoquad knowledge. A friends omnce toild me that the really smart man doesn't know everything, he just knows where to get HELP!!!

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: feets] #1031752
07/16/11 03:36 PM
07/16/11 03:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
70AARcuda Offline
master
70AARcuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
[quoteThink about that Holley for a second. Move the throttle and it opens primary and secondary bores with both accelerator pumps dumping fuel.
The TQ opens the primaries and if the draw is strong enough it will begin opening the secondaries and back off as the load is eased. The pump will shoot fuel but not to the degree of the Holley.
When I was playing with carbs I could normally get the best performance (butt dyno) out of a Holley. However, once tuned to performance the Holley was way behind the AFB and TQ when it came to street manners.
Since my cars are street cars I did not run Holley carbs for long.




Not true on a holley dp...the secondary throttle blades and acelerator pump do not begin to open until the primaries open 40 degrees...


Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: 70AARcuda] #1031753
07/16/11 04:29 PM
07/16/11 04:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
A
ademon Offline
master
ademon  Offline
master
A

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
Quote:

[quoteThink about that Holley for a second. Move the throttle and it opens primary and secondary bores with both accelerator pumps dumping fuel.
The TQ opens the primaries and if the draw is strong enough it will begin opening the secondaries and back off as the load is eased. The pump will shoot fuel but not to the degree of the Holley.
When I was playing with carbs I could normally get the best performance (butt dyno) out of a Holley. However, once tuned to performance the Holley was way behind the AFB and TQ when it came to street manners.
Since my cars are street cars I did not run Holley carbs for long.




Not true on a holley dp...the secondary throttle blades and acelerator pump do not begin to open until the primaries open 40 degrees...


Thats true on the TQ also, secondarys open with your foot, not by draw. to tune out the infamous "bog" you need the secondary air door adjusted properly along with a good choke pull off.

Last edited by ademon; 07/16/11 04:31 PM.
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mcode69] #1031754
07/16/11 04:39 PM
07/16/11 04:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,931
P
Paul_Fancsali Offline
master
Paul_Fancsali  Offline
master
P

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,931
Holley DP will not achieve the mileage of a TQ but then again I don't want it for that I like to race and Holley is the winner hands down period When I go to test and tune I do justthat testing various combo's to see how they perform I realize it is not pure but when I do it I allow for weather changes etc. As far as Hamburger is concerned I take mine with onions and mayo. He should have stuck to oil pans

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Paul_Fancsali] #1031755
07/16/11 04:41 PM
07/16/11 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
Quote:

Holley DP will not achieve the mileage of a TQ but then again I don't want it for that I like to race and Holley is the winner hands down period When I go to test and tune I do justthat testing various combo's to see how they perform I realize it is not pure but when I do it I allow for weather changes etc.




When I want to race, I go with fuel injection. It wins with my hands on a cold beverage. To tune it for atmospheric conditions all I do is turn the key and start the engine.



We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: feets] #1031756
07/16/11 05:29 PM
07/16/11 05:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
68Bullit Offline
mopar
68Bullit  Offline
mopar

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
I do BOTH! I have an AED prepped 750DP.......AND a TQ for my mild 360. I have to say honestly that I don't know which one I like better. I am currently using the Holley right now and it has great performance, as well as great street manners..... of course it is prepped by the engineers at AED. I like both carbs REALLY WELL, and I try to find reasons to pick one over the other, and then I finally agreed to just like them both and take turns running each one.

I will be going soon to the strip this September and I will log both times between the two carbs during several 1/4 runs. I will be doing runs in extreme elevation however and not sure if one carb suffers more than the other one (due to elevation alone), but I will have the times listed for both carbs in equal conditions. I also plan on switching to the TQ for street use (either before and/or after the track) but will be doing this for mileage reasons primarily. I've not measured between the two yet but now I wanna find out....

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: feets] #1031757
07/16/11 09:30 PM
07/16/11 09:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
J
joedust451 Offline
super gas
joedust451  Offline
super gas
J

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
Quote:


The TQ opens the primaries and if the draw is strong enough it will begin opening the secondaries and back off as the load is eased. The pump will shoot fuel but not to the degree of the Holley.







Not true, The secondaries will not start (be able) to open untill at least 40% throttle. Same with a QJ.


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: joedust451] #1031758
07/16/11 11:04 PM
07/16/11 11:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Quote:


The TQ opens the primaries and if the draw is strong enough it will begin opening the secondaries and back off as the load is eased. The pump will shoot fuel but not to the degree of the Holley.







Not true, The secondaries will not start (be able) to open untill at least 40% throttle. Same with a QJ.




To a point. The air door IS adjustable!
When you have smaller, efficient, double venturi primaries working for you, there is a LOT of high velocity AIRFLOW going into the motor, more so than a Holley. Makes for a BETTER burn in the cylinders. The bigger secondary bores provide additional air/fuel flow to the already higher velocity primary jet stream. More torque!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: feets] #1031759
07/16/11 11:05 PM
07/16/11 11:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Quote:

Holley DP will not achieve the mileage of a TQ but then again I don't want it for that I like to race and Holley is the winner hands down period When I go to test and tune I do justthat testing various combo's to see how they perform I realize it is not pure but when I do it I allow for weather changes etc.




When I want to race, I go with fuel injection. It wins with my hands on a cold beverage. To tune it for atmospheric conditions all I do is turn the key and start the engine.










"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031760
07/17/11 01:35 AM
07/17/11 01:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,489
west kentucky
G
gomangoRTSE Offline
pro stock
gomangoRTSE  Offline
pro stock
G

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,489
west kentucky
Geezus I wonder why some people make posts on this subject. When they open their mouth you immediately know they dont know what their talking about.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031761
07/17/11 02:37 AM
07/17/11 02:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
J
joedust451 Offline
super gas
joedust451  Offline
super gas
J

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


The TQ opens the primaries and if the draw is strong enough it will begin opening the secondaries and back off as the load is eased. The pump will shoot fuel but not to the degree of the Holley.







Not true, The secondaries will not start (be able) to open untill at least 40% throttle. Same with a QJ.




To a point. The air door IS adjustable!
When you have smaller, efficient, double venturi primaries working for you, there is a LOT of high velocity AIRFLOW going into the motor, more so than a Holley. Makes for a BETTER burn in the cylinders. The bigger secondary bores provide additional air/fuel flow to the already higher velocity primary jet stream. More torque!!






Not talking about the air door, alot of what your saying has nothing to do with what i said , not trying too be a jerk, just saying.


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: joedust451] #1031762
07/17/11 02:58 AM
07/17/11 02:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
if the thermoquad is really so much better than a holley carb in fuel economy for the daily driver and also performance on the track, what would the reason be that so many people prefer something other than a thermoquad? surely there must be a reason that 99% of people choose something else isn't there? can that many people be wrong?


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031763
07/17/11 03:22 AM
07/17/11 03:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 450
owensboro, ky
rallye73 Offline
mopar
rallye73  Offline
mopar

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 450
owensboro, ky
Quote:

if the thermoquad is really so much better than a holley carb in fuel economy for the daily driver and also performance on the track, what would the reason be that so many people prefer something other than a thermoquad? surely there must be a reason that 99% of people choose something else isn't there? can that many people be wrong?



Probably the same reason why Chevy guys think a small belongs in everything...because it is all they know. Most people don't wanna take the time to set the carb up right. So when it doesn't perform the way they thought it would they just ditch it for the Holley. Same with the QJ. People complain about the bog in those too, but you can tune it out of them also. Only thing with the QJ is they never made as large of a cfm as the thermoquad. 800 was the biggest they had.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: rallye73] #1031764
07/17/11 04:12 AM
07/17/11 04:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 384
Australia
M
Mcode69 Offline
enthusiast
Mcode69  Offline
enthusiast
M

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 384
Australia
It's the same reason most morons are into chevs, they just don't know any better! And apart form all this what about all the other problems holleys have, the stripped out threads, the baseplates that are made out of cheese, the fact that the basic design with all the leaks and all the other problems is out of the 50's, the fact that in warm weather they wont start when hot because they boiled over when you turned the engine off, this is a classic, holley couldn't fix it so they gave it a name... "flash boil" the fact that a tiny spec of dirt gets in them and they go haywire. I could go on and on if you guys are happy with junk so be it!

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: gomangoRTSE] #1031765
07/17/11 05:05 AM
07/17/11 05:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Geezus I wonder why some people make posts on this subject. When they open their mouth you immediately know they dont know what their talking about.




Put YOUR in and teach us something then, TQ wizard!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: joedust451] #1031766
07/17/11 05:21 AM
07/17/11 05:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker


Not talking about the air door, alot of what your saying has nothing to do with what i said , not trying too be a jerk, just saying.




Never SAID you were one!! The air door, I brought up as well as the venturies. They are of a more efficient design than the Holleys', that's
MY point I was getting at, AFTER agreeing with the post!! I just said MY .



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031767
07/17/11 08:10 AM
07/17/11 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
nielsville, minn.
Q
quickd100 Offline
master
quickd100  Offline
master
Q

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,389
nielsville, minn.
Thermoquad, Holley, they're both fuel delivery devices. Both have their good points and falts. They both can be set up to scream or fall on their faces. Holleys main advantage is numbers, there are more of them, and way more aftermarket parts available for them. The Thermoquad was the high water mark for Carter, one Rochester engineer once said the Thermoquad was the next step in development after the quadrajet.
I have Holleys sitting on the shelf from 600cfm units all the way up to 1140cfm and I use them too. I really like the Thermoquad, they're CHEAP, give good mileage, and make great power, and are easy to modify. I can take a 850 thermoquad and modify it and it will run great on a 318 to a stroker Hemi.
One day when I get caught up I'll do some back to back dyno tests with a Thermoquad vs. Holleys. Dave

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mcode69] #1031768
07/17/11 09:47 AM
07/17/11 09:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
P
Performance Only Offline
top fuel
Performance Only  Offline
top fuel
P

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Quote:

It's the same reason most morons are into chevs, they just don't know any better! And apart form all this what about all the other problems holleys have, the stripped out threads, the baseplates that are made out of cheese, the fact that the basic design with all the leaks and all the other problems is out of the 50's, the fact that in warm weather they wont start when hot because they boiled over when you turned the engine off, this is a classic, holley couldn't fix it so they gave it a name... "flash boil" the fact that a tiny spec of dirt gets in them and they go haywire. I could go on and on if you guys are happy with junk so be it!




so i guess what should be taken from this thread is what?
most morons like chevies and only a select few people in the world know how to tune a thermoquad?
i've been playing with cars since the 1960's and as i recall, by then the holley 4150's and 4160's had been out for quite some time. the TQ didn't arrive until around 1969. during the years to follow i don't recall many (if any) people touting the TQ as the greatest carb on earth like i see in this thread today. i wonder why that is? to think no one could ever tune one properly would be a ludicrous thought. the argument that they just weren't as popular without an explanation is just crazy talk. if the argument is that they didn't make as many carbs as holley did, well, that's true, but why? if they were the latest and greatest, Carter surely would have made more. right?
they must have some inherent drawback that caused their demise. not only did Chrysler Corporation give up on them, but also the performance crowd of the 70's and 80's etc. so now you'd have one believe that they really are all that and a bag of chips 40+ years later. hasn't history taught us this lesson already?
i've owned a few thermoquads over the years and they performed as well as one could expect. okay mileage, no bogs, etc etc. the fact is none of them ever performed as well as a comparable sized 4150 holley. i never cared for the fact that the primary's are so small that you'd have to put the pedal half way to the floor to get the same acceleration as a 4150 does at less than 1/4 throttle. i never cared for that quadrajet sound of the secondary's opening. some thought it sounded cool, although i didn't. it was mostly noise to me. every car i ever had with a thermoquad eventually got replaced with a holley. the cars drove better and were always faster at the race track. perhaps those are just some of the reasons the thermoquads went the way of the dinosaur. oh, and by the way, don't tell me about holleys that have stripped bolt holes or leaks. we all know what caused the threads to strip out. maybe we can talk about cracked and leaking phenolic carb bodies instead, or some of the other inherent design flaws of the lately much revered thermoquad, or maybe you'd rather not...


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031769
07/17/11 10:20 AM
07/17/11 10:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
T
theclutcher Offline
top fuel
theclutcher  Offline
top fuel
T

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
Why not have the best of both worlds.
The spreadbore Holley 6210.
Now everyone can be happy,
not to mention it is a great carb... dbl pumper with 50 cc on secondary, tuneable with small primary.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: theclutcher] #1031770
07/17/11 10:49 AM
07/17/11 10:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy Offline
super stock
kilroy  Offline
super stock

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
Quote:

Why not have the best of both worlds.
The spreadbore Holley 6210.
Now everyone can be happy,
not to mention it is a great carb... dbl pumper with 50 cc on secondary, tuneable with small primary.




But it looks funny, buckey teeth and its hair sticks up.


1973 Charger, former SE, former auto

I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031771
07/17/11 01:15 PM
07/17/11 01:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
Why didn't the factory engineers put the Holley 750 DP on high performance engines. It was readily available at the time.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031772
07/17/11 01:34 PM
07/17/11 01:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
Quote:

Quote:

It's the same reason most morons are into chevs, they just don't know any better! And apart form all this what about all the other problems holleys have, the stripped out threads, the baseplates that are made out of cheese, the fact that the basic design with all the leaks and all the other problems is out of the 50's, the fact that in warm weather they wont start when hot because they boiled over when you turned the engine off, this is a classic, holley couldn't fix it so they gave it a name... "flash boil" the fact that a tiny spec of dirt gets in them and they go haywire. I could go on and on if you guys are happy with junk so be it!




so i guess what should be taken from this thread is what?
most morons like chevies and only a select few people in the world know how to tune a thermoquad?
i've been playing with cars since the 1960's and as i recall, by then the holley 4150's and 4160's had been out for quite some time. the TQ didn't arrive until around 1969. during the years to follow i don't recall many (if any) people touting the TQ as the greatest carb on earth like i see in this thread today. i wonder why that is? to think no one could ever tune one properly would be a ludicrous thought. the argument that they just weren't as popular without an explanation is just crazy talk. if the argument is that they didn't make as many carbs as holley did, well, that's true, but why? if they were the latest and greatest, Carter surely would have made more. right?
they must have some inherent drawback that caused their demise. not only did Chrysler Corporation give up on them, but also the performance crowd of the 70's and 80's etc. so now you'd have one believe that they really are all that and a bag of chips 40+ years later. hasn't history taught us this lesson already?
i've owned a few thermoquads over the years and they performed as well as one could expect. okay mileage, no bogs, etc etc. the fact is none of them ever performed as well as a comparable sized 4150 holley. i never cared for the fact that the primary's are so small that you'd have to put the pedal half way to the floor to get the same acceleration as a 4150 does at less than 1/4 throttle. i never cared for that quadrajet sound of the secondary's opening. some thought it sounded cool, although i didn't. it was mostly noise to me. every car i ever had with a thermoquad eventually got replaced with a holley. the cars drove better and were always faster at the race track. perhaps those are just some of the reasons the thermoquads went the way of the dinosaur. oh, and by the way, don't tell me about holleys that have stripped bolt holes or leaks. we all know what caused the threads to strip out. maybe we can talk about cracked and leaking phenolic carb bodies instead, or some of the other inherent design flaws of the lately much revered thermoquad, or maybe you'd rather not...




The TQ was only canned by chrysler because carter went out of buisness due to poor managment, the q-jet filled in for a year and then EFI came out and no more carbs. When the TQ came out it replaced all the holleys, mabey the holleys were so good they just had to replace it with a worse carb When I raced my 66 dart I tried a bunch of different holley carbs and holley style carbs and none had a performance advantage over a t-quad but they all sucked more gas (BTW a 770 street avenger was the closest MPG and ran the same 1/8th mile times) I wish Holley would make an anular booster all aluminum version of the 770 street avenger, it would probably be able to get similar MPG and the only time you would waste fuel is when you change jets. Any one with 1/2 a brain can look down the throat of a carb and see witch one atomizes the fuel better and the TQ does a much better job and that is the real reason they get better MPG, like was mentioned holley covers up the bad transitions by dumping in more fuel. The reason no one ran TQs back in the day is they were convinced it was an emmision piece of junk, same reason no one liked 360s or 400s, no matter how good it was people think it is an emmision only item in spite of the fact they have more potential than the predasessor .


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: feets] #1031773
07/17/11 01:40 PM
07/17/11 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Why didn't the factory engineers put the Holley 750 DP on high performance engines. It was readily available at the time.




because it was more expensive????? I never said that MPG's wouldn't be better w/ a TQ, however if he has a DP now and it's running well. why muck w/ it? He'll have to BUY a TQ either pay somebody to set it up, or tune it himself and I doubt he'd get more tha 1 maybe 2 mpg's around town better.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031774
07/17/11 01:43 PM
07/17/11 01:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
A
ademon Offline
master
ademon  Offline
master
A

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
Quote:

Quote:

It's the same reason most morons are into chevs, they just don't know any better! And apart form all this what about all the other problems holleys have, the stripped out threads, the baseplates that are made out of cheese, the fact that the basic design with all the leaks and all the other problems is out of the 50's, the fact that in warm weather they wont start when hot because they boiled over when you turned the engine off, this is a classic, holley couldn't fix it so they gave it a name... "flash boil" the fact that a tiny spec of dirt gets in them and they go haywire. I could go on and on if you guys are happy with junk so be it!




so i guess what should be taken from this thread is what?
most morons like chevies and only a select few people in the world know how to tune a thermoquad?
i've been playing with cars since the 1960's and as i recall, by then the holley 4150's and 4160's had been out for quite some time. the TQ didn't arrive until around 1969. during the years to follow i don't recall many (if any) people touting the TQ as the greatest carb on earth like i see in this thread today. i wonder why that is? to think no one could ever tune one properly would be a ludicrous thought. the argument that they just weren't as popular without an explanation is just crazy talk. if the argument is that they didn't make as many carbs as holley did, well, that's true, but why? if they were the latest and greatest, Carter surely would have made more. right?
they must have some inherent drawback that caused their demise. not only did Chrysler Corporation give up on them, but also the performance crowd of the 70's and 80's etc. so now you'd have one believe that they really are all that and a bag of chips 40+ years later. hasn't history taught us this lesson already?
i've owned a few thermoquads over the years and they performed as well as one could expect. okay mileage, no bogs, etc etc. the fact is none of them ever performed as well as a comparable sized 4150 holley. i never cared for the fact that the primary's are so small that you'd have to put the pedal half way to the floor to get the same acceleration as a 4150 does at less than 1/4 throttle. i never cared for that quadrajet sound of the secondary's opening. some thought it sounded cool, although i didn't. it was mostly noise to me. every car i ever had with a thermoquad eventually got replaced with a holley. the cars drove better and were always faster at the race track. perhaps those are just some of the reasons the thermoquads went the way of the dinosaur. oh, and by the way, don't tell me about holleys that have stripped bolt holes or leaks. we all know what caused the threads to strip out. maybe we can talk about cracked and leaking phenolic carb bodies instead, or some of the other inherent design flaws of the lately much revered thermoquad, or maybe you'd rather not...


I dont think many auto makers were using Holleys on much after 1971 or even before that, Carter was always on most GM and Mopars, they needed something that would hold the correct A/F ratio, so in came the QJ and TQ until throttle body injection. Also your statement about Chysler giving up on the thermoquad makes no sense, did they go to bolting up 800/850 Holleys in the mid 80's??? When it comes down to it the QJ and TQ are coming back into favor due to there flexibility and also some guys like to be different. Holley will always be on the majority of hot rods but its more interesting to see a the QJ/TQ getting it done

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HotRodDave] #1031775
07/17/11 01:57 PM
07/17/11 01:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
68Bullit Offline
mopar
68Bullit  Offline
mopar

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

It's the same reason most morons are into chevs, they just don't know any better! And apart form all this what about all the other problems holleys have, the stripped out threads, the baseplates that are made out of cheese, the fact that the basic design with all the leaks and all the other problems is out of the 50's, the fact that in warm weather they wont start when hot because they boiled over when you turned the engine off, this is a classic, holley couldn't fix it so they gave it a name... "flash boil" the fact that a tiny spec of dirt gets in them and they go haywire. I could go on and on if you guys are happy with junk so be it!




so i guess what should be taken from this thread is what?
most morons like chevies and only a select few people in the world know how to tune a thermoquad?
i've been playing with cars since the 1960's and as i recall, by then the holley 4150's and 4160's had been out for quite some time. the TQ didn't arrive until around 1969. during the years to follow i don't recall many (if any) people touting the TQ as the greatest carb on earth like i see in this thread today. i wonder why that is? to think no one could ever tune one properly would be a ludicrous thought. the argument that they just weren't as popular without an explanation is just crazy talk. if the argument is that they didn't make as many carbs as holley did, well, that's true, but why? if they were the latest and greatest, Carter surely would have made more. right?
they must have some inherent drawback that caused their demise. not only did Chrysler Corporation give up on them, but also the performance crowd of the 70's and 80's etc. so now you'd have one believe that they really are all that and a bag of chips 40+ years later. hasn't history taught us this lesson already?
i've owned a few thermoquads over the years and they performed as well as one could expect. okay mileage, no bogs, etc etc. the fact is none of them ever performed as well as a comparable sized 4150 holley. i never cared for the fact that the primary's are so small that you'd have to put the pedal half way to the floor to get the same acceleration as a 4150 does at less than 1/4 throttle. i never cared for that quadrajet sound of the secondary's opening. some thought it sounded cool, although i didn't. it was mostly noise to me. every car i ever had with a thermoquad eventually got replaced with a holley. the cars drove better and were always faster at the race track. perhaps those are just some of the reasons the thermoquads went the way of the dinosaur. oh, and by the way, don't tell me about holleys that have stripped bolt holes or leaks. we all know what caused the threads to strip out. maybe we can talk about cracked and leaking phenolic carb bodies instead, or some of the other inherent design flaws of the lately much revered thermoquad, or maybe you'd rather not...




The TQ was only canned by chrysler because carter went out of buisness due to poor managment, the q-jet filled in for a year and then EFI came out and no more carbs. When the TQ came out it replaced all the holleys, mabey the holleys were so good they just had to replace it with a worse carb When I raced my 66 dart I tried a bunch of different holley carbs and holley style carbs and none had a performance advantage over a t-quad but they all sucked more gas (BTW a 770 street avenger was the closest MPG and ran the same 1/8th mile times) I wish Holley would make an anular booster all aluminum version of the 770 street avenger, it would probably be able to get similar MPG and the only time you would waste fuel is when you change jets. Any one with 1/2 a brain can look down the throat of a carb and see witch one atomizes the fuel better and the TQ does a much better job and that is the real reason they get better MPG, like was mentioned holley covers up the bad transitions by dumping in more fuel. The reason no one ran TQs back in the day is they were convinced it was an emmision piece of junk, same reason no one liked 360s or 400s, no matter how good it was people think it is an emmision only item in spite of the fact they have more potential than the predasessor .




Spell check seemed to be bypassed on this one but at any rate.....I agree with it....and I'll add to it by saying that now we have information that can be shared by the stroke of a keyboard which enables us to more parts, more tuneability, and all around more reason to use a good carburetor like the TQ. There wasn't an information age back in the 70's-80's like there is now and because of this the TQ has come back and IS recognized as a good carb. Many on here will still want a Holley no matter what, but that doesn't make the TQ a bad carb. Again, I have both, and I like both.......

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: 68Bullit] #1031776
07/17/11 04:02 PM
07/17/11 04:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
T
theclutcher Offline
top fuel
theclutcher  Offline
top fuel
T

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
Found service manual from a 1000 cfm competition series TQ I ran back in the late 70's.
Back then, I preferred TQ's to the Holley.
Can say it was a nice product and to this day regret selling it as I have not seen another one since.
I imagine that with some tweaking over the yrs, the performance capability of them has improved.
I do remember wishing for more choices of metering rods back then.
Anyone have one of these floating around, 850 or 1000 cfm?

6733798-tqinfo(Small).jpg (141 downloads)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: theclutcher] #1031777
07/17/11 04:50 PM
07/17/11 04:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
Several of each, how deep is your wallet?


Seriously, fun carbs to play with but jets can be a challenge short of making/modifying your own, etc. and they are a race oriented version, not the best street manors.

6733854-CompSeries.JPG (119 downloads)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031778
07/17/11 08:22 PM
07/17/11 08:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
J
joedust451 Offline
super gas
joedust451  Offline
super gas
J

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
Quote:



Not talking about the air door, alot of what your saying has nothing to do with what i said , not trying too be a jerk, just saying.




Never SAID you were one!! The air door, I brought up as well as the venturies. They are of a more efficient design than the Holleys', that's
MY point I was getting at, AFTER agreeing with the post!! I just said MY .






Gotcha


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: joedust451] #1031779
07/17/11 10:33 PM
07/17/11 10:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Quote:



Not talking about the air door, alot of what your saying has nothing to do with what i said , not trying too be a jerk, just saying.




Never SAID you were one!! The air door, I brought up as well as the venturies. They are of a more efficient design than the Holleys', that's
MY point I was getting at, AFTER agreeing with the post!! I just said MY .






Gotcha




CLASSIC!!


"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031780
07/17/11 10:55 PM
07/17/11 10:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Quote:

It's the same reason most morons are into chevs, they just don't know any better! And apart form all this what about all the other problems holleys have, the stripped out threads, the baseplates that are made out of cheese, the fact that the basic design with all the leaks and all the other problems is out of the 50's, the fact that in warm weather they wont start when hot because they boiled over when you turned the engine off, this is a classic, holley couldn't fix it so they gave it a name... "flash boil" the fact that a tiny spec of dirt gets in them and they go haywire. I could go on and on if you guys are happy with junk so be it!




so i guess what should be taken from this thread is what?
most morons like chevies and only a select few people in the world know how to tune a thermoquad?
i've been playing with cars since the 1960's and as i recall, by then the holley 4150's and 4160's had been out for quite some time. the TQ didn't arrive until around 1969. during the years to follow i don't recall many (if any) people touting the TQ as the greatest carb on earth like i see in this thread today. i wonder why that is? to think no one could ever tune one properly would be a ludicrous thought. the argument that they just weren't as popular without an explanation is just crazy talk. if the argument is that they didn't make as many carbs as holley did, well, that's true, but why? if they were the latest and greatest, Carter surely would have made more. right?
they must have some inherent drawback that caused their demise. not only did Chrysler Corporation give up on them, but also the performance crowd of the 70's and 80's etc. so now you'd have one believe that they really are all that and a bag of chips 40+ years later. hasn't history taught us this lesson already?
i've owned a few thermoquads over the years and they performed as well as one could expect. okay mileage, no bogs, etc etc. the fact is none of them ever performed as well as a comparable sized 4150 holley. i never cared for the fact that the primary's are so small that you'd have to put the pedal half way to the floor to get the same acceleration as a 4150 does at less than 1/4 throttle. i never cared for that quadrajet sound of the secondary's opening. some thought it sounded cool, although i didn't. it was mostly noise to me. every car i ever had with a thermoquad eventually got replaced with a holley. the cars drove better and were always faster at the race track. perhaps those are just some of the reasons the thermoquads went the way of the dinosaur. oh, and by the way, don't tell me about holleys that have stripped bolt holes or leaks. we all know what caused the threads to strip out. maybe we can talk about cracked and leaking phenolic carb bodies instead, or some of the other inherent design flaws of the lately much revered thermoquad, or maybe you'd rather not...




We can spend ALL DAY AND NIGHT posting about both
the Holleys' and the TQs' weaknesses. Sure NEITHER
one is perfect, in design nor in performance and efficiency. Bottom line, it comes down to the matter of which type carb works BEST for the combo at hand .



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031781
07/17/11 11:55 PM
07/17/11 11:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
T
theclutcher Offline
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theclutcher  Offline
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T

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
Quote:

Several of each, how deep is your wallet?






My wallet is so deep, you can see Russia when looking at the bottom of it.

Good to see somebody has 'em stashed.... like hens teeth.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031782
07/18/11 12:04 AM
07/18/11 12:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Online penguin-006
The village idiot's idiot
dIc dOc Deity !  Online Penguin-006
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
Quote:



not the best street manors.




....kind-of 'splains most Berri-Crabs ..

Pig fat, fouling spark-plugs and the air, washing cyl walls .... SHALL I continue ? ..

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: theclutcher] #1031783
07/18/11 12:36 AM
07/18/11 12:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
Quote:

My wallet is so deep, you can see Russia when looking at the bottom of it.

Good to see somebody has 'em stashed.... like hens teeth.







I have a few of them stashed, finding parts to restore them with is murder so I've grabbed all I could find for a while, I find 10 850's for every 1000, both are scarce but the 1000's are getting rediculous!

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031784
07/18/11 12:38 AM
07/18/11 12:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy Offline
super stock
kilroy  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
Quote:

Quote:

My wallet is so deep, you can see Russia when looking at the bottom of it.

Good to see somebody has 'em stashed.... like hens teeth.







I have a few of them stashed, finding parts to restore them with is murder so I've grabbed all I could find for a while, I find 10 850's for every 1000, both are scarce but the 1000's are getting rediculous!




THAT RIDICULOUS!!


1973 Charger, former SE, former auto

I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1031785
07/18/11 12:59 AM
07/18/11 12:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,213
Williamsport PA North Central ...
13ChargerR/T AWD Offline
master
13ChargerR/T AWD  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,213
Williamsport PA North Central ...
Quote:

Quote:

Why didn't the factory engineers put the Holley 750 DP on high performance engines. It was readily available at the time.




because it was more expensive????? I never said that MPG's wouldn't be better w/ a TQ, however if he has a DP now and it's running well. why muck w/ it? He'll have to BUY a TQ either pay somebody to set it up, or tune it himself and I doubt he'd get more tha 1 maybe 2 mpg's around town better.




Thats my guess ...bean counters thinking which Carb they could use that would work but be cheap...

its also what till recently(this my opinion and cant be changed ) had been the thing holding American cars down VS the imports...its not that American Workers could not make the same or better car as the foreign companies...its that the foreign companies used the 7 cent a washer/damper/NVH type damper made of RUBBER but the American companies said...we can use that 3 cent PLASTIC part...sure it will vibrate and rattle like hell after 5K miles...but it will work....Thats why the say Honda Civic was a bit MORE $$ and the Chevy Cavalier a bit less but the Civic FELT/SOUNDED/RODE/LASTED a TRILLION times better...they went the extra mile....

I think this has been going on for ever same with a less expensive carb VS a 750 Holley DP...





Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031786
07/18/11 06:56 AM
07/18/11 06:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
I Live Here
gdonovan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
Quote:


I have a few of them stashed, finding parts to restore them with is murder so I've grabbed all I could find for a while, I find 10 850's for every 1000, both are scarce but the 1000's are getting rediculous!




I have a new "aftermarket" electric choke model I picked up at Englishtown swap meet several years ago =)

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031787
07/18/11 08:48 AM
07/18/11 08:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,172
Ohio
T
theclutcher Offline
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theclutcher  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Ohio
WOW. Thats a stash.

Was reading that old manual, they put some engineering into those carbs vs the std TQ's, venturi and acc pump design.

Wonder just how much less perf a than a 1050.

Would be interesting to see back to back comparison of fully modified carbs.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: theclutcher] #1031788
07/18/11 09:47 AM
07/18/11 09:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
Quote:

I have a new "aftermarket" electric choke model I picked up at Englishtown swap meet several years ago =)






You must have 1 of these? Known as "Super Quads", these are not Competition series carbs but rather an over the counter "One size fits all" replacement. Good carbs but not considered to be anything like the Competition Series units.

6734861-SuperQuad.jpg (85 downloads)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031789
07/18/11 12:10 PM
07/18/11 12:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
P
Performance Only Offline
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how come people are only willing to pay 5.00-25.00 dollars for good cores, yet when you see them advertised for sale everybody wants an arm and 4 legs for them and they're still just good cores? ("supposedly good cores anyway")

Last edited by Performance Only; 07/18/11 12:11 PM.

machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031790
07/18/11 12:17 PM
07/18/11 12:17 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote:

Quote:



not the best street manors.




....kind-of 'splains most Berri-Crabs ..

Pig fat, fouling spark-plugs and the air, washing cyl walls .... SHALL I continue ? ..




Then you need to get better at TUNING them!

I've had a number of 3310 Holley 750 vacuum secondary carbs on everything from a truck 360 to a mild performance 440 and they all peform really well with NONE of the above mentioned traits!

The 360 in my 4x4 powerwagon went from 9 mpg with the tiny 2 bbl. to 11-12 with the Holley. Not great but the thing weighs over 5,000 lbs. and is a full time 4x4. Starts instantly, no fouling, no problems.

The 440 in my '71 'Cuda got 13-14 mpg with a .528 MP cam, headers and Holley 750 on a regular basis. Not spectacular but it started instantly and had great all around performance.

The 318 with 360 heads that I built got 17-18 mpg with a .480 cam, single plane M1 intake, headers, etc. Again, not bad for the combo.

Doc can cry all day long about the Holley's but the simple fact is they are a great carb that is easy to tune and parts are as close as your local O'Reilly's or Autozone.

Thermoquads may have worked well back in the day but, as others here have pointed out, are quickly going the way of the dinosaur.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP #1031791
07/18/11 02:07 PM
07/18/11 02:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
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Posts: 30,250
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Quote:



Doc can cry all day long about the Holley's but the simple fact is they are a great carb that is easy to tune and parts are as close as your local O'Reilly's or Autozone.

Thermoquads may have worked well back in the day but, as others here have pointed out, are quickly going the way of the dinosaur.




NO ... gy .... all

...and using YURR logic about parts being more available ... you must be suggesting that we all turn-into Chebby guys ...

...AND the Berri crab is in the same Garden-Grave(yard) as the Plastic Fantastic !

....A N D if the aftermarket gives-us a econ and dependable DPFI system ...NO ONE (in their right minds) ... will use any type of crab ....

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031792
07/18/11 03:11 PM
07/18/11 03:11 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Quote:

....A N D if the aftermarket gives-us a econ and dependable DPFI system ...NO ONE (in their right minds) ...
will use any type of crab ....




As I mentioned in another post, the NASCAR boys are going to fuel injection next year and the hope is they will develop a system that is simple, works well, and is dead nuts reliable. If so, it may mean cheap FI for all of us!

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP #1031793
07/18/11 03:34 PM
07/18/11 03:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
D
DPelletier Offline
I Live Here
DPelletier  Offline
I Live Here
D

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Quote:

Quote:

....A N D if the aftermarket gives-us a econ and dependable DPFI system ...NO ONE (in their right minds) ...
will use any type of crab ....




As I mentioned in another post, the NASCAR boys are going to fuel injection next year and the hope is they will develop a system that is simple, works well, and is dead nuts reliable. If so, it may mean cheap FI for all of us!




I don't care if it's FREE; no classic car I own will ever have FI on it.

....ok, carry on.

Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP #1031794
07/18/11 03:41 PM
07/18/11 03:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



not the best street manors.




....kind-of 'splains most Berri-Crabs ..

Pig fat, fouling spark-plugs and the air, washing cyl walls .... SHALL I continue ? ..




Then you need to get better at TUNING them!

I've had a number of 3310 Holley 750 vacuum secondary carbs on everything from a truck 360 to a mild performance 440 and they all peform really well with NONE of the above mentioned traits!

The 360 in my 4x4 powerwagon went from 9 mpg with the tiny 2 bbl. to 11-12 with the Holley. Not great but the thing weighs over 5,000 lbs. and is a full time 4x4. Starts instantly, no fouling, no problems.

The 440 in my '71 'Cuda got 13-14 mpg with a .528 MP cam, headers and Holley 750 on a regular basis. Not spectacular but it started instantly and had great all around performance.

The 318 with 360 heads that I built got 17-18 mpg with a .480 cam, single plane M1 intake, headers, etc. Again, not bad for the combo.

Doc can cry all day long about the Holley's but the simple fact is they are a great carb that is easy to tune and parts are as close as your local O'Reilly's or Autozone.

Thermoquads may have worked well back in the day but, as others here have pointed out, are quickly going the way of the dinosaur.




All those MPG figures you gave really suck compared to stuff I have had with thermo-quads so I don't get what you are bragging about


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HotRodDave] #1031795
07/18/11 03:50 PM
07/18/11 03:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
J
joedust451 Offline
super gas
joedust451  Offline
super gas
J

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



not the best street manors.




....kind-of 'splains most Berri-Crabs ..

Pig fat, fouling spark-plugs and the air, washing cyl walls .... SHALL I continue ? ..




Then you need to get better at TUNING them!

I've had a number of 3310 Holley 750 vacuum secondary carbs on everything from a truck 360 to a mild performance 440 and they all peform really well with NONE of the above mentioned traits!

The 360 in my 4x4 powerwagon went from 9 mpg with the tiny 2 bbl. to 11-12 with the Holley. Not great but the thing weighs over 5,000 lbs. and is a full time 4x4. Starts instantly, no fouling, no problems.

The 440 in my '71 'Cuda got 13-14 mpg with a .528 MP cam, headers and Holley 750 on a regular basis. Not spectacular but it started instantly and had great all around performance.

The 318 with 360 heads that I built got 17-18 mpg with a .480 cam, single plane M1 intake, headers, etc. Again, not bad for the combo.

Doc can cry all day long about the Holley's but the simple fact is they are a great carb that is easy to tune and parts are as close as your local O'Reilly's or Autozone.

Thermoquads may have worked well back in the day but, as others here have pointed out, are quickly going the way of the dinosaur.




All those MPG figures you gave really suck compared to stuff I have had with thermo-quads so I don't get what you are bragging about




Half 2 agree with ya Dave, I do love my holleys no doubt, allways will, But 2 pair them up along with a TQ or QJ for gas mileage, The spreadbore will always win in that department propperly tuned of coarse.


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: joedust451] #1031796
07/18/11 04:12 PM
07/18/11 04:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
68Bullit Offline
mopar
68Bullit  Offline
mopar

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
Threads like these draw amazing attention. You get all different takes of course, but I can't help to wonder how many people who talk against the TQ's have ever even used one, let alone taken any time to learn and tune one??? Even just basic tuning I think the answer is clear. Some claim they have run them on their cars and eventually replaced them but what does this really add up to????


Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: 68Bullit] #1031797
07/18/11 04:39 PM
07/18/11 04:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Performance Only Offline
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Performance Only  Offline
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Quote:

Some claim they have run them on their cars and eventually replaced them but what does this really add up to????






it could mean a lot of different things. if your suggesting that they're so hard to tune and that's why most people give up on them, then either your right, and everybody but a select few people are just too stupid to tune them. or, perhaps people did learn how to tune them but were happier with something else.
MPG is nice for a daily driver, but 1-2 MPG on a hot street strip car or a bracket combo where a holley will run better just seems like a no brainer. as already mentioned, parts for holley's are everywhere. parts for the plastic fantastic, not so much.


machine shop owner and engine builder
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031798
07/18/11 05:03 PM
07/18/11 05:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
Quote:

how come people are only willing to pay 5.00-25.00 dollars for good cores, yet when you see them advertised for sale everybody wants an arm and 4 legs for them and they're still just good cores? ("supposedly good cores anyway")





What's important to note is which Thermo-Quads you are shopping for, they are not all valued the same. MOST of them are only worth around $25.00 as cores, however a few select TQ part #'s are quite rare/desirable/valuable and can be worth several hundred as cores, so you have to be sure you are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to asking prices.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP #1031799
07/18/11 05:20 PM
07/18/11 05:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
Quote:

Thermoquads may have worked well back in the day but, as others here have pointed out, are quickly going the way of the dinosaur.




Based on the business I have been receiving in the past year or two I totally disagree, if anything they are being rediscovered and their popularity is growing!


Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031800
07/18/11 05:23 PM
07/18/11 05:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,644
So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
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Posts: 20,644
So Near, Yet So Far
Frankly, I am amazed and a bit disappointed that you guys have been arguing about this for 4 pages now with very little empirical evidence to support your viewpoints.

Everybody knows that the best carb will have the hottest chick posed next to it.


Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: 68Bullit] #1031801
07/18/11 05:56 PM
07/18/11 05:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Threads like these draw amazing attention. You get all different takes of course, but I can't help to wonder how many people who talk against the TQ's have ever even used one, let alone taken any time to learn and tune one??? Even just basic tuning I think the answer is clear. Some claim they have run them on their cars and eventually replaced them but what does this really add up to????






You've hit the nail right on the HEAD. Yeah, RIGHT !! In fact, Riddle Me This: Most people take the time to know/tune a Holley quickly, but why is it that they "write" off a
TQ when it gets the LEAST bit out-of-tune?


Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 07/18/11 06:08 PM.
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: theclutcher] #1031802
07/18/11 05:58 PM
07/18/11 05:58 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
S
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here
scratchnfotraction  Offline
I Live Here
S

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
Quote:

Why not have the best of both worlds.
The spreadbore Holley 6210.
Now everyone can be happy,
not to mention it is a great carb... dbl pumper with 50 cc on secondary, tuneable with small primary.






holley 6210 650cfm dbl pumper spredbore on my 440

also have a holley 4010 duel feed 850 dbl pumper spredbore annular booster...kinda a holleybrock q-jet

holley = gas holes

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031803
07/18/11 06:15 PM
07/18/11 06:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Quote:

Quote:



Doc can cry all day long about the Holley's but the simple fact is they are a great carb that is easy to tune and parts are as close as your local O'Reilly's or Autozone.

Thermoquads may have worked well back in the day but, as others here have pointed out, are quickly going the way of the dinosaur.




NO ... gy .... all

...and using YURR logic about parts being more available ... you must be suggesting that we all turn-into Chebby guys ...

...AND the Berri crab is in the same Garden-Grave(yard) as the Plastic Fantastic !

....A N D if the aftermarket gives-us a econ and dependable DPFI system ...NO ONE (in their right minds) ... will use any type of crab ....




Gy3, you just HAD to get Doc GOING, didn't you!!




"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1031804
07/18/11 06:17 PM
07/18/11 06:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

Quote:

Why not have the best of both worlds.
The spreadbore Holley 6210.
Now everyone can be happy,
not to mention it is a great carb... dbl pumper with 50 cc on secondary, tuneable with small primary.






holley 6210 650cfm dbl pumper spredbore on my 440

also have a holley 4010 duel feed 850 dbl pumper spredbore annular booster...kinda a holleybrock q-jet

holley = gas holes





Glad it WORKS for YOU!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031805
07/18/11 06:20 PM
07/18/11 06:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Online penguin-006
The village idiot's idiot
dIc dOc Deity !  Online Penguin-006
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
Quote:



Gy3, you just HAD to get Doc GOING, didn't you!!







HYPER- .... now youz knowz me ... I am just gettin' warmed UP !

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: theclutcher] #1031806
07/18/11 06:25 PM
07/18/11 06:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
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Quote:

Quote:

Several of each, how deep is your wallet?






My wallet is so deep, you can see Russia when looking at the bottom of it.

Good to see somebody has 'em stashed.... like hens teeth.




HELLO, KOMRADE!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031807
07/18/11 06:30 PM
07/18/11 06:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
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Desert Tracker
Quote:

Quote:



not the best street manors.




....kind-of 'splains most Berri-Crabs ..

Pig fat, fouling spark-plugs and the air, washing cyl walls .... SHALL I continue ? ..




EASY!! Doc, easy!! Some are partial to Mopars' 6-pack systems. Mellow, it's gonna be a GOOD day.



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031808
07/18/11 06:42 PM
07/18/11 06:42 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
S
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here
scratchnfotraction  Offline
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S

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Why not have the best of both worlds.
The spreadbore Holley 6210.
Now everyone can be happy,
not to mention it is a great carb... dbl pumper with 50 cc on secondary, tuneable with small primary.






holley 6210 650cfm dbl pumper spredbore on my 440

also have a holley 4010 duel feed 850 dbl pumper spredbore annular booster...kinda a holleybrock q-jet

holley = gas holes





Glad it WORKS for YOU!!






thats just it...they dont work worth poop so far

I am fixin up a striped down q-jet to try next

I know nothing about tuneing any carbs either

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031809
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Gy3, you just HAD to get Doc GOING, didn't you!!







HYPER- .... now youz knowz me ... I am just gettin' warmed UP !





Yes, you're right!! But with you, it's like opening Pandoras' Box on an "all-out" bash session on those
"Berri-Crabs" as YOU put it. For the politically
correct they're Holley Carbs!! What is that? HYPER-pimp? I'm NOT.. in.. yerr lyne ov.. BIZZNIZZ, man!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1031810
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thats just it...they dont work worth poop so far

I am fixin up a striped down q-jet to try next

I know nothing about tuneing any carbs either






Yeah, me neither!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031811
07/18/11 07:01 PM
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HYPER- ......takea' CHILLpill !

WHO HERE is posting like a MADman ? ...

EVERY-ting points at choo ...

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031812
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HYPER- ......takea' CHILLpill !

WHO HERE is posting like a MADman ? ...

EVERY-ting points at choo ...




Doc, U.Rr.a..ovR..PaYed..Err.IT.aNt!!

Sorry folks, had to talk to Doc in HIS OWN dialect. Its called - "FibGlassic" (and yes, DIEGO please spell-check!). YeRR.. tHe.. OwNLy.. MADMAN here, Doc. Chill-pill? Never take em', DULLS the senses. Unlike you. CHOO..no..wad.I..MEAN!! Besides that, I thought you were also in the know on the the TQ, man. Expand our minds here!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031813
07/18/11 09:24 PM
07/18/11 09:24 PM

A
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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A



Only on Moparts...

6735811-facepalm.jpg (75 downloads)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP #1031814
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agreed gy .....HYPER is off the deep-end ...

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP #1031815
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Only on Moparts...




Better than reality TV!! Now BACK to our regularly
posted THREAD!!

On the flipside in the case of the DP, an efficient intake could be part of the equation for good street manners, but...then again... it depends what's in the combo.



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031816
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agreed gy .....HYPER is off the deep-end ...




DEEP-END is your middle name Doc.



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031817
07/18/11 11:30 PM
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Based on the business I have been receiving in the past year or two I totally disagree, if anything they are being rediscovered and their popularity is growing!






Ever take one apart to see if those boosters could be repro'd and fit into a std TQ?

I imagine some of the tricks that went into the Comp Series design could be incorporated into the std TQ's, No?

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Performance Only] #1031818
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Some claim they have run them on their cars and eventually replaced them but what does this really add up to????






it could mean a lot of different things. if your suggesting that they're so hard to tune and that's why most people give up on them, then either your right, and everybody but a select few people are just too stupid to tune them. or, perhaps people did learn how to tune them but were happier with something else.
MPG is nice for a daily driver, but 1-2 MPG on a hot street strip car or a bracket combo where a holley will run better just seems like a no brainer. as already mentioned, parts for holley's are everywhere. parts for the plastic fantastic, not so much.





That was my circumstance.

Much info and tech support back then for the Holley, that and cant recall seeing many a racer run one at the track.
Dont need much versatility when your at WOT for 1320, hence the change here.
Not for lack of tuning ease or ability to do so.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: theclutcher] #1031819
07/19/11 12:39 AM
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Quote:

Ever take one apart to see if those boosters could be repro'd and fit into a std TQ?

I imagine some of the tricks that went into the Comp Series design could be incorporated into the std TQ's, No?






I've taken many of them appart but haven't gone into any frankenstein experiments with the boosters, mainly because I haven't really found the need to. I suppose anything is possible if you played with them enough.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031820
07/19/11 03:22 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Ever take one apart to see if those boosters could be repro'd and fit into a std TQ?

I imagine some of the tricks that went into the Comp Series design could be incorporated into the std TQ's, No?






I've taken many of them appart but haven't gone into any frankenstein experiments with the boosters, mainly because I haven't really found the need to. I suppose anything is possible if you played with them enough.


not sure what boosters are being talked about but i have read where you can cut out the outer ring of the booster on the 850 TQ making it about 1000 cfm's, and if you remove the choke plate and related shafts add another 60cfm's. BTW these TQ's are also popular with the big cube Buick guys.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ademon] #1031821
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JUST a quick note before I hit-the-hay .... I am going to experiment with the secondary spray bars in the TQ to hopefully get better atomization...

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031822
07/19/11 05:55 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Thermoquads may have worked well back in the day but, as others here have pointed out, are quickly going the way of the dinosaur.




Based on the business I have been receiving in the past year or two I totally disagree, if anything they are being rediscovered and their popularity is growing!






I am such a trend setter!


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ademon] #1031823
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ever take one apart to see if those boosters could be repro'd and fit into a std TQ?

I imagine some of the tricks that went into the Comp Series design could be incorporated into the std TQ's, No?






I've taken many of them appart but haven't gone into any frankenstein experiments with the boosters, mainly because I haven't really found the need to. I suppose anything is possible if you played with them enough.


not sure what boosters are being talked about but i have read where you can cut out the outer ring of the booster on the 850 TQ making it about 1000 cfm's, and if you remove the choke plate and related shafts add another 60cfm's. BTW these TQ's are also popular with the big cube Buick guys.




To make an 850 Comp series into 1000cfm, cut outer ring?

Last edited by theclutcher; 07/19/11 08:40 AM.
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: theclutcher] #1031824
07/19/11 11:53 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Ever take one apart to see if those boosters could be repro'd and fit into a std TQ?

I imagine some of the tricks that went into the Comp Series design could be incorporated into the std TQ's, No?






I've taken many of them appart but haven't gone into any frankenstein experiments with the boosters, mainly because I haven't really found the need to. I suppose anything is possible if you played with them enough.


not sure what boosters are being talked about but i have read where you can cut out the outer ring of the booster on the 850 TQ making it about 1000 cfm's, and if you remove the choke plate and related shafts add another 60cfm's. BTW these TQ's are also popular with the big cube Buick guys.




To make an 850 Comp series into 1000cfm, cut outer ring?


any 850 TQ, but will need to be jetted up i suspect

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ademon] #1031825
07/19/11 01:50 PM
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Jetting of any carb will depend on the engine combo underneath it as well as other factor like altitude etc.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031826
07/19/11 02:05 PM
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here is what i have noticed about this debate: 1) guys who hate thermoquads will never use them
2) demonsizzler is mentioned with glowing reviews in regards to thermoquads
3) demonsizzler does not chime in nor toot his own horn (I have no idea if the 'sizz toots anything else )
4) I have run out of things to say.
5) demonsizzler; expect a pm from my dad. We need a thermoquad set up, the right way!

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: 68Bullit] #1031827
07/19/11 02:51 PM
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Quote:

Threads like these draw amazing attention. You get all different takes of course, but I can't help to wonder how many people who talk against the TQ's have ever even used one, let alone taken any time to learn and tune one??? Even just basic tuning




Yup, I was told when working on my TQ to chunk it in the trash can and buy a Holley. I asked why, have you ever run a TQ, the answer was no. The only real world experience this person had was what other people had told him. I run the 850 on my teen and it runs flawlessly. Would I ever run a Holley, maybe, but I got 60 bucks in my carb, when I can buy a quality piece for 60 bucks I might just try it.

As far as mileage comparing 2 318s one with Holley and numerically lower gears gets about the same as mine with numerically higher gears and a TQ, in fact mine might do just a tad better. Same body car.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Mopar_Country] #1031828
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IIRC HotrodDave had a 850 TQ on his super MPG 318.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1031829
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Your right Walt

I also had a 770 street avenger for a while and it ran just as good but never got near as good of MPG.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HotRodDave] #1031830
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Quote:

Your right Walt

I also had a 770 street avenger for a while and it ran just as good but never got near as good of MPG.




But the TQ is a piece of junk! Over carbed 318!

How could that be possible?


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1031831
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A 1 1/2" primary carb(850) on a small-inch low-rpm MPG project ? ...

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031832
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A 1 1/2" primary carb(850) on a small-inch low-rpm MPG project ? ...





Sure, why not? May not have "razor-sharp" performance, but it leaves room for "growth"!!
It's mostly about the NEEDED amount of airflow, NOT the TOTAL rating of the carb, Doc. Jetting, float height, choke unloader settings, acc pump settings do have an effect on performance (model depending)..BUT.. you CAN fit the TQ on a 318 and have decent performance!! Personally, a 360 TQ model would be about right for the '18.



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031833
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I'm like everyone else... have a big steaming pile of tq's which I can't bring myself to throw in the trash.
BUT.. this thread does get a guy thinking....
I believe the main reason the tq didn't get the popularity is because they are a pain in the junk to open up and tune or fix problems. Way to much finicky linkage and screws and garbage.
If you wanted to start from scratch, its a labour of love. By the time your done , if you sell it you might recoup your money you have into the carb kit.

It is a good design, but could have used a couple more mill into engineering.


Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1031834
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But the TQ is a piece of junk! Over carbed 318!

How could that be possible?





back-at-you. Pick up a TQ manual, for once, and find out why!! For "junk" to perform well on a 318, is NOT that it's a possibility, it's an EVERYDAY occurance!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: RemCharger] #1031835
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I'm like everyone else... have a big steaming pile of tq's which I can't bring myself to throw in the trash.
BUT.. this thread does get a guy thinking....
I believe the main reason the tq didn't get the popularity is because they are a pain in the junk to open up and tune or fix problems. Way to much finicky linkage and screws and garbage.
If you wanted to start from scratch, its a labour of love. By the time your done , if you sell it you might recoup your money you have into the carb kit.

It is a good design, but could have used a couple more mill into engineering.






Good point!! When do you want to "rid" yourself of that pile of TQ's? Seriously,
there are combos built with the TQ (or TQ's - yes Scotty, I need more power! ) that run very strong. BTW they are NO HARDER to work on than a Holley.




"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031836
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Quote:

Quote:

A 1 1/2" primary carb(850) on a small-inch low-rpm MPG project ? ...





Sure, why not? May not have "razor-sharp" performance, but it leaves room for "growth"!!
It's mostly about the NEEDED amount of airflow, NOT the TOTAL rating of the carb, Doc. Jetting, float height, choke unloader settings, acc pump settings do have an effect on performance (model depending)..BUT.. you CAN fit the TQ on a 318 and have decent performance!! Personally, a 360 TQ model would be about right for the '18.






HYPER - ...

WE are talking about a low-rpm MPG application ... NONE of what-choo mentioned above really has anything to do with that.

The primary vent SIZE is what matters ... and a 1 3/8 (I would think) would work the bestest there.

I have a 1 3/8 on my Discoverer motorhome(413 power) ...and it has performed GREAT. NO NEED to get into the secondaries uNder normal flat-road cruising operations at around 60 mph.

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031837
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

A 1 1/2" primary carb(850) on a small-inch low-rpm MPG project ? ...





Sure, why not? May not have "razor-sharp" performance, but it leaves room for "growth"!!
It's mostly about the NEEDED amount of airflow, NOT the TOTAL rating of the carb, Doc. Jetting, float height, choke unloader settings, acc pump settings do have an effect on performance (model depending)..BUT.. you CAN fit the TQ on a 318 and have decent performance!! Personally, a 360 TQ model would be about right for the '18.






HYPER - ...

WE are talking about a low-rpm MPG application ... NONE of what-choo mentioned above really has anything to do with that.

The primary vent SIZE is what matters ... and a 1 3/8 (I would think) would work the bestest there.

I have a 1 3/8 on my Discoverer motorhome(413 power) ...and it has performed GREAT. NO NEED to get into the secondaries uNder normal flat-road cruising operations at around 60 mph.





Good for you, that you have chosen that size of primaries for YERR 413 'DISCO!! But Doc... contrary to the nonsence that's rattling in yerr
head, I made that point of primary sizes a-WHILE BACK!! Lay off the pipe!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031838
07/19/11 11:08 PM
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Quote:

A 1 1/2" primary carb(850) on a small-inch low-rpm MPG project ? ...




You never saw the thread?


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1031839
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Quote:

Quote:

A 1 1/2" primary carb(850) on a small-inch low-rpm MPG project ? ...




You never saw the thread?




Yes I saw it RT .. but it never registered that it was a 850. HONESTLY ...I think that some more MPG could be gotten with the 800 carb ... and MAYBE some-more with a reduction of the vent size ON TOP....or on the bottom.

Now to HYPER - ...will he EVER get his ride fixed ? ... ME THIMKS not ! ..

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031840
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Quote:

Quote:

A 1 1/2" primary carb(850) on a small-inch low-rpm MPG project ? ...




You never saw the thread?




Yes I saw it RT .. but it never registered that it was a 850. HONESTLY ...I think that some more MPG could be gotten with the 800 carb ... and MAYBE some-more with a reduction of the vent size ON TOP....or on the bottom.

Now to HYPER - ...will he EVER get his ride fixed ? ... ME THIMKS not ! ..




Your problem is that you put a lot of time and effort into being an IRRITANT, instead of working YERR OWN PROJECTS!!


Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 07/20/11 12:52 PM.

"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1031841
07/20/11 08:06 PM
07/20/11 08:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Online penguin-006
The village idiot's idiot
dIc dOc Deity !  Online Penguin-006
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,250
Florida STAYcation
HYPER ....seriously ...take a break ..

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1031842
07/20/11 10:22 PM
07/20/11 10:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Quote:

HYPER ....seriously ...take a break ..




I'm eating a KitKat bar right now, what's
yerr problem!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1031843
07/21/11 07:03 AM
07/21/11 07:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
I Live Here
gdonovan  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
Quote:

Quote:

I have a new "aftermarket" electric choke model I picked up at Englishtown swap meet several years ago =)






You must have 1 of these? Known as "Super Quads", these are not Competition series carbs but rather an over the counter "One size fits all" replacement. Good carbs but not considered to be anything like the Competition Series units.




Looks like it.

I love the TQ's, going to run one on the GTX again when it comes out to play. The more I tinkered with it the faster the car would go!

Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: gdonovan] #1031844
07/22/11 01:25 AM
07/22/11 01:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,406
Kalispell Mt.
I tried an 800 and it didn't do any different in the MPG department, I think there is a point where atomization only gets so good and the primaries on the 850 are reasonably small. Mabey if I was only concerned with MPG at 50 MPH the smaller one would have showed very small gains but most of my testing was just real world driving in town and on the highway at 70-75 mph. I may be doing another one soon and it will turn less RPM so the smaller carb might show some small improvement.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: HotRodDave] #1031845
07/22/11 02:57 AM
07/22/11 02:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
A
ademon Offline
master
ademon  Offline
master
A

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
Has anyone on here used a A/F meter when tuning a t-quad, i think this winter i may install my modified stock intake and play around with my 71 t-quads but right off the bat i want to install a A/F meter seems like it would make life easier with the jets, rods, float, sec air door gap, sec air door spring adjustment etc..etc..etc..

Last edited by ademon; 07/22/11 02:59 AM.
Re: thermoquad VS. Holley 750 DP [Re: ademon] #1031846
07/24/11 09:53 AM
07/24/11 09:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
I Live Here
gdonovan  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
Quote:

Has anyone on here used a A/F meter when tuning a t-quad




Only since the early 90's!

O2 sensor and gauges takes a lot of guesswork out of tuning and the gauges are certainly cheaper than 20 years ago.

Some folks will state you need a wide-band sensor for proper tuning, this just isn't so unless you are on the ragged edge at WOT in my honest opinion.

I have tuned engines running 30 psi on gas with narrow band factory sensors without fail, now that can get hairy fast if you screw up.

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