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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements.
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1024389
07/05/11 02:57 AM
07/05/11 02:57 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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In this thread: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=5#Post6709396I mentioned the crank should spin easy without piston rings, it it is tight there is a problem with the bearings. With piston rings there will be a good amount of drag making it hard to spin the engine. I started this post to document my results using the 440 Source stroker kit. There have been several posts on these kits, both good and bad, but not much in the way of actual measured numbers. Other than getting everything mocked up, and assembling the short block, I don't think I will have the funds to finish the engine this year. Had a bunch of unexpected medical bills. I was supposed to have surgery on Friday the 8th, but in the per-op exam they found my blood surger was over 300  So now I have to go get checked for diabetes? I checked my glucose and it seems to be increasing about 10 every day. Today it was 350.
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements.
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1024390
07/17/11 05:48 PM
07/17/11 05:48 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Here is one thing I found that needed a minor correction. The hole in the back of the crank for the manual transmission pilot bushing was about 0.002" too tight, and also needed to be drilled slightly deeper for the bushing to be flush to the end of the crank. The crank is drill deeper than the bushing length, but there is a step where the crank was machined for the bushing, and the smaller hole is about the same diameter as the bushing inner diameter or a bit larger. The larger size looks like it was machined on a lathe, and the finish was not real smooth. The National PB286HD bushing is 0.88" long and has an outer diameter of 0.941", and inner diameter of 0.753" (advertised.) the crank hole should be 15/16" (0.9375") so the bushing has 0.0035" interference fit (this should reduce the inner diameter close to 0.750". After cracking the first bushing, I checked, and the bore measured 9.350", but the reason I broke the bushing is it hit the inner step before being flush with the end of the crank.
Anyhow, I just used a 15/16" drill bit, to cleanup the bore and drill the hole slightly deeper.
The second bushing went in with no problem.
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements.
[Re: Leigh]
#1024393
07/17/11 06:24 PM
07/17/11 06:24 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Guys a couple of grams one way or the other is not a problem--thousands of race units are done within a few and they run fantastic. It is one of those things that just won't matter. Shops use expensive balancers that can find a paperclip taped on a crank but the scales most use are China specials that read different every day you turn them on--an experienced shop that does them everyday will send out a good balance job--it is technique and experience. Even if the scales say 782 today and 783 tomorrow on the same part it will all work out fine. 
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements.
[Re: ]
#1024394
07/17/11 08:34 PM
07/17/11 08:34 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Quote:
Guys
a couple of grams one way or the other is not a problem--thousands of race units are done within a few and they run fantastic. It is one of those things that just won't matter. Shops use expensive balancers that can find a paperclip taped on a crank but the scales most use are China specials that read different every day you turn them on--an experienced shop that does them everyday will send out a good balance job--it is technique and experience. Even if the scales say 782 today and 783 tomorrow on the same part it will all work out fine.
I made the mistake of buying a scale from Summit Racing. It is the NEXUS brand that proform tools sells (I think 3000g x 1g.) It was near impossable to get repeatable results with that scale.
I bought a MyWeight i5500 scale. It's only around $200, but is a much better scale (5500g x 0.1g resolution) it has a ballance bubble so you can level it, and is temperature compensated.
I was able to get accurate and repeatable results with this scale.
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1024396
11/21/11 05:58 AM
11/21/11 05:58 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Been awhile, finally got around to ordering the cam, lifters, cam bearings, and a bunch of other stuff.
Today, I put the cam bearing in. I used the slotted cam trick, but this time I made sure the slots were nice and sharp without burrs.
Washed the block and installed the crank and cam with the #1 piston for checking TDC (no rings on it yet.) The crank key was a bit too tall not allowing the timing chain sprocket to go on all the way, so I had to fix that before I could degree the cam. Installed the cam straight up and it centerlined right at 108 degrees. Comp cams recommends 106. I have the 440 source timming set with the roller thrust washer, and multi-key crank gear, so advancing the cam should be easy.
I have been thinking of installing the cam at 104 degrees, but not sure if it will make much difference?
Anyhow, I do have to say I like the 440 source timing set. This is the second one I have used and they fit nice with no slack in the chain.
I also started mocking up the stealth heads. The Comp XR286HR-10 Hydraulic roller cam needs a bit different spring, so I am swapping out the springs retainers and locks.
Comp recommends their 925-16 springs, but I am using the Isky 8005A springs. The Isky springs are 400#/in compared to 395#/in of the comps, with about the same seat pressure. Installed at 1.880" they should be about 130# on the seat.
The retainers are Comp 748-16 10-degree retainers. They are standard height and fit the springs well.
The 10-degree comp 611-16 are also standard height 11/16" valve stem locks.
The stock Install height of the stealth retainers /locks was 1.83", and just swapping the new retainers/locks the install height went to 1.91", so I have to use a 0.030" shim to get my 1.880" install height.
Also, now that the the retainers/locks are closer to the valve tip, my cheepie CAT stainless rockers hit the locks, so I will have to grind the tabs off or get different rockers.
That's about it for the updates, but I hope to get the rest assembled this week.
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update
[Re: keelsracing]
#1024398
11/21/11 12:56 PM
11/21/11 12:56 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Quote:
Slotted Cam Trick ????
Sorry, the cam bearings were tight, so I used an old cam with slots cut in it to shave the cam bearings to size. I tried this earlier, but did not clean up the burrs after slotting the cam journals ans it took too much off the bearings, so I cleaned up the slots, de-burring them and this time it did a good job sizing the cam bearings.
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1024399
11/22/11 04:27 AM
11/22/11 04:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Quote:
Slotted Cam Trick ????
Sorry, the cam bearings were tight, so I used an old cam with slots cut in it to shave the cam bearings to size. I tried this earlier, but did not clean up the burrs after slotting the cam journals ans it took too much off the bearings, so I cleaned up the slots, de-burring them and this time it did a good job sizing the cam bearings.
I'm not a fan of the slotted cam trick. I like to put some green scotch brite in a slotted mandrel and clean up the bores really good with a die grinder. Then I clean off the leading outside edge of the cam bearings so they start in the cam bores without pulling material and I also take a razor blade and de-bur both inside edges of the cam bearings as I've seen a little bit of an edge that can cause the cam to be tight. I've had fair to good luck doing this. Sometimes though, I've had to use the scotch brite on the inside of the bearings. Not my preferred method, but the cam really does need to turn freely.
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1024401
11/26/11 03:55 AM
11/26/11 03:55 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Today, I profiled the cam after degreeing it in at 106 CL. I gapped the rings and installed all but one piston. I am missing one oil ring support  I E-Mailed 440 source tonight, waiting for a reply. I checked the valve distance from seated to the piston at TDC (with no head gasket), and got 0.358" intake, and 0.385 exhaust. So I should have at least 0.398" with a 0.040" head gasket. By checking lobe lift every degree around TDC, and measuring piston position with a bridge, it looks like the Intake valve is closest to the piston at 8-degrees ATDC, but I should have 0.2038" PV clearance  I figured it would be plenty using such a mild cam, but it's fun measuring this stuff for future reference (and to get away from the wife and kids for a few hours.) Anyhow, Next will be working on the stealth heads. Need to make pushrod clearance if I want to use the 1.7:1 rockers. So far I only checked the valve job on one chamber, but it looked good. Guides seemed fine too. I might gasket match and clean up the ports, but the castings look pretty good.
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1024402
01/13/12 03:08 AM
01/13/12 03:08 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Wow, I haven't updated this in a long time.
I have been busy doing all the stuff necessary after my father passes away in August. Been spending most of my free time getting his house ready to sell.
Anyhow, I did some mild porting on the stealth heads, and had a valve job done on them, and flow tested a chamber. Tonight I bolted a head on and measured for pushrod length. Looks like I will need 8.450" length. I am going to use the CAT stainless rockers. I ground down the valve tip locator tangs so they don't hit the valve spring retainers. After messing with these cheap rockers I don't think I would use them again, just too many things needing correcting.
Here is the headflow numbers:
Lift Intake Exhaust
0.100" / 82 / 81
0.200" / 157 / 127
0.300" / 221 / 151
0.400" / 260 / 174
0.500" / 278 / 190
0.600" / 283 / 200
0.700" / 289 / 211
0.800" / 289 / 215
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, 505 update
[Re: dogdays]
#1024404
01/13/12 07:54 PM
01/13/12 07:54 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Quote:
Hey, who is the guy over there in Aurora selling new aluminum blocks on Craigslist? Is he for real?
R.
I did not know about this.
Do you have a link, I may be able to check it out?
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements.
[Re: Big Squeeze]
#1024405
01/13/12 08:53 PM
01/13/12 08:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 189
long island new york
kingdust
member
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member
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Posts: 189
long island new york
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Quote:
Quote:
how did the replacement crank check out?
Had issues with that one too.......and a thread on here got deleted about it quite a while ago...........long story short, if I moved the crank forward, the counter weight would hit the block before the thrust did.........and he blamed it on my block, but a stock 400 and 383 crank both fit perfectly fine......Then the third one was actually fixable and then useable...... 
Quote:
not trying to stir the pot but how do you know your original was resold
Long story short, I brought the crank up in a thread and the Sourcerer goes into this huge spiel how about how I sent back a crank that was "supposedly bad" and he sent me another.........so I asked in that thread if he actually went through the trouble of checking that "supposedly bad" crank that I told him wasn't useable and he wouldn't answer, even though he was replying to other people and still bashing me.........I told him I wasn't worried about it.....just that I thought it'd be good for him to know to correct it on later cranks........Later in the thread, I said that since you won't answer and since you admitted you NEVER checked it yourself because you're saying that it was "supposedly bad" then I bet you've already resold it.........that's when the thread got deleted....... 
If he'd have actually checked it, he'd have KNOWN it wasn't fixable  .......and he knows that most people, especially Tight Wad Joe Dirte Mopar guys, aren't going to spend the coin to get their cranks indexed.......
That's when I put the wording in my sig below......
tight wad joe dirt mopar guys!LMFAO thats funny s--t!
LIFE IS A LESSON,YOU LEARN IT WHEN YOUR THROUGH!
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Re: info - 440 Source balanced kit, my measurements.
[Re: kingdust]
#1024406
01/14/12 02:15 AM
01/14/12 02:15 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Why quote something that is not part of this thread?
Anyhow, Today I measured the intake port lengths, and cross section, the head port length and min cross section, same for the exhaust ports and headers so I could enter better information into the Dynosim5 simulation. Most of what I entered was pretty close to what I originally estimated so no big change is estimated power.
The simulation is estimating 562 HP @ 4,800 RPM, and 646 ft/lbs torque at 4,200 RPM, with 434 ft/lbs at 1,000 RPM.
I also ordered the pushrods, 8.475" length, 5/16" diameter by 0.083" wall, ball/ball ends. Alread got a UPS notification that they have been shipped!
And got my Walker Quietflow SS mufflers today. I hope they fit, they are several inches longer than the super turbos that came with the TTI exhaust system.
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