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launch issues ( update and a new pb )
#1022138
06/28/11 07:30 PM
06/28/11 07:30 PM
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robin hood country
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I have just swapped over to rms upper control arms and calvert 90/10 shocks to improve 60ft times. Last weekend i took the car out , the launch was a lot more aggresive, front end rises very quickly but car is loosing 60ft.
I managed to find a pic of the car on the net and it appears to be squashing the tyres a lot.
Car runs 9 way ranchos and ss springs, new 31X10.5 Hoosiers, 4.56 gears.
Car was running 1.53 60 ft's down from 1.48-1.50.
What pressures should i try, have been running 8 to 10, i'm thinking of going to at least 12 and stiffening the rear shockers up a lot.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues
[Re: VernMotor]
#1022142
06/29/11 03:27 AM
06/29/11 03:27 AM
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HI Don
I have frame connectors, footbrake off the converter, around 3000 i think, ss springs with clamps on the front, yes i run tubes, car with me 3200lbs
1st Run on sunday tried shocks set on 5, 10psi, second and third, 8 psi shocks on 3 and 4 psi respectively.
Points of note, when i fitted the dana, i moved the axle back an inch and dropped the rear down, also my old M/T slicks were stiffer side walls.
Vernmotor
I'm thinking of trying at least 12psi and shocks around 7, what 60ft and times does your car run?.
ab7fh
I have around 5" of travel, the lower bump stops are cut right down to around 1/2".
Ideally i want to be were you are, between 1.40-1.42.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues
[Re: 493_DART]
#1022144
06/29/11 09:29 AM
06/29/11 09:29 AM
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Yeah, i always follow your posts for that reason.
Has it gone 1.41 footbraking it.?
I haven't had a snubber on it for 15 yrs, do you think it would help?.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues
[Re: deaks]
#1022145
06/29/11 03:33 PM
06/29/11 03:33 PM
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AS soon as i get video, i will post it, in the mean time more advice would be appreciated.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues
[Re: 493_DART]
#1022148
06/29/11 07:30 PM
06/29/11 07:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,401
Tucson, Arizona
MRMOPAR
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I wonder if your losing time with front end lift vs moving the car forward.
68 RR 528" INDY MAXX
07 2500 CTD
Southwest International Raceway - IHRA - Tucson, AZ
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Re: launch issues
[Re: MRMOPAR]
#1022149
06/29/11 08:05 PM
06/29/11 08:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
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 Mick We've gone over my combo before however, I run 29.5x11.5 with 12-12.5psi (works best for my combo). Looking at your photo seems to me you do need more air in the rear tires. Also what kind of angle is your rear shackle at? I run an agressive layed down angle. From my experience this hepls promote dynamic rise in the rear, thus planting the tires. JOM though  Oh, one more thing, don't think a snubber is going to help with your issue. Really not needed. Best thing I ever did was pitch the snubber and put QA-1 shocks on the rear, footbrake 1.389 60' @ 3325#
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Re: launch issues
[Re: deaks]
#1022150
06/29/11 08:18 PM
06/29/11 08:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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A shed in England
Tig
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Mick, we were tuning our launch a little at the weekend at the pod (not a good thing to do when your running in brackets I know) We had 12.5 psi cold and we need more looking at the photos. We got it down to a 1.37 when the front touched before the 60ft lights and 1.48 when they didn't. Car wants less ext damping and more compression damping at the front along with more rear tyre pressure, lots of wadding on launch and darker at the edges on the contact patch. We're just creeping up on it as a friend of ours with caltracs got all 4 wheels off the floor this weekend and had some damage 
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: launch issues
[Re: Tig]
#1022151
06/30/11 04:28 AM
06/30/11 04:28 AM
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The hoosiers are definitely softer than the M/T's, however they were at least 8 yrs old but still ran a 1.46 on the car last year. Since fitting the control arms and calvert shocks, it's dramatically improved the front end rise. Greg I was always led to believe ss springs dont need a snubber because of the short front section. The angle of the rear hangers, is as shown in the mopar chassis book. Tig I am going to the pod in a couple of weeks, i am going to stiffen the shocks up to at least 7 and start with around 12 psi. Your car is making far more power than mine, i cant see all four wheels coming off the ground on mine, oh and well done on the 60ft improvement. Mick 
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues
[Re: deaks]
#1022152
06/30/11 05:06 AM
06/30/11 05:06 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
493_DART
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Id like to post some real track data (im not a keyboard racer) ---this is my experience , i race and keep a log book. MY car DID improve with a snubber. it was going around 1.49 - 1.51 or so on an average day ....... and after the snubber was installed it was going 1.46-1.49 . It seemed to help and make the 60 more consistent. the weather was similar--no other changes. Thats the end of the story--no argument needed--it worked. most of the above passes were in crap weather (normal in iowa) . My point is , a pinion snubber may or may NOT work on YOUR car-----its worth a try . It sure seemed to help MY car. I wouldnt sit here and say so if i couldnt offer a possible enhancement to your car . (and no--i dont sell pinion snubbers--i made mine) 
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Re: launch issues
[Re: 493_DART]
#1022153
06/30/11 06:09 AM
06/30/11 06:09 AM
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I'm sorry Kevin, i was just making an observation and i do value your contribution to this thread along with everyone else who has replied. If i had all the answers i wouldn't be on here asking for help. BTW, Judging by the time difference you must have match sticks holding your eye lids open. It's 10 am here Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues
[Re: tboomer]
#1022156
06/30/11 04:55 PM
06/30/11 04:55 PM
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Worst Weather USA
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Quote:
Quote:
yes-my hours are weird plus i get insomnia on top of that
Usually on the starting line!!
i went home the last 2 races due to RED lights.....YOU know all about those --dont ya ?
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Re: launch issues
[Re: tboomer]
#1022158
07/04/11 07:43 PM
07/04/11 07:43 PM
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Sorry to flog a dead horse but managed to find a better pic.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues
[Re: deaks]
#1022160
07/04/11 08:18 PM
07/04/11 08:18 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Sorry to flog a dead horse but managed to find a better pic.
Mick
A few things I would look at... shocks to soft on
extension... rear shackle angle wrong but I would
look at the shocks first... and also check the length
of the shocks... should be at least 1" longer than
the lower mount with the diff hanging with the lower
shock off the mount
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Re: launch issues
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1022161
07/04/11 09:16 PM
07/04/11 09:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,457
Sydney,Australia
tex013
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i'm with MrP
the rancho should be long enough,but still check.
i run the ranchos on my Satellite,i used to run at #5 or 6.
i did have inconsistant 60's,every now and again would turn the tyre for no real reason.looked at some pics,Randy Labratt helped out,tightened the ranchos ,now run #8 or 9,seemed to have helped out.ran a PB on #9.
i think the shock was too loose and sometimes on the launch would top out too early/hard and unload the tyres
best 60 is 1.540
Tex
ps : this shot is with #8 shock setting
Last edited by Tex013; 07/04/11 09:17 PM.
New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: launch issues
[Re: 493_DART]
#1022163
07/05/11 05:04 AM
07/05/11 05:04 AM
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On this run, 60ft was 1.53, shocks on 5, 7.5 psi, hot 90 degree day, car was nearly 2/10 slow.
Rear has been lowered 1-2" and back around an inch, ranchos are RS99116 as recommended by calverts, i have just pulled the shocks off the bottom mounts with the back hanging down and the shocks extend at least another 2-3" beyond the bottom spring eye.
The rear shackles are set as the mopar book, bottom facing the rear at roughly 45 degrees with the car on the ground.
Could i have upset the ic when i made the new front hangers?.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues
[Re: deaks]
#1022164
07/05/11 05:35 AM
07/05/11 05:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
493_DART
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Quote:
On this run, 60ft was 1.53, shocks on 5, 7.5 psi, hot 90 degree day, car was nearly 2/10 slow.
Rear has been lowered 1-2" and back around an inch, ranchos are RS99116 as recommended by calverts, i have just pulled the shocks off the bottom mounts with the back hanging down and the shocks extend at least another 2-3" beyond the bottom spring eye.
The rear shackles are set as the mopar book, bottom facing the rear at roughly 45 degrees with the car on the ground.
Could i have upset the ic when i made the new front hangers?.
Mick
mick-- i had weird suspension issues 2 days ago.
Our cars are so similar...
my 2 time trials were on the ss springs--the "porpousing" thing was gone--but my 60 was slow. Car did better in the 60 but it was 1.49 and 1.48 . 1st round it boiled em--1.53? , buyback it still felt weird = 1.50 . i went home . still spinning the tire 
dam car has went 1.41 - im pulling my hair out,
so i know the mental part man
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Re: launch issues
[Re: 493_DART]
#1022165
07/05/11 10:06 AM
07/05/11 10:06 AM
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I thought you had caltracs Kevin.
Were those times off the trans brake.
I feel if i can get it down to 1.40-1.42 it will go high 10.1, low 10.2.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues
[Re: deaks]
#1022166
07/05/11 10:08 AM
07/05/11 10:08 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
On this run, 60ft was 1.53, shocks on 5, 7.5 psi, hot 90 degree day, car was nearly 2/10 slow.
Rear has been lowered 1-2" and back around an inch, ranchos are RS99116 as recommended by calverts, i have just pulled the shocks off the bottom mounts with the back hanging down and the shocks extend at least another 2-3" beyond the bottom spring eye.
The rear shackles are set as the mopar book, bottom facing the rear at roughly 45 degrees with the car on the ground.
Could i have upset the ic when i made the new front hangers?.
Mick
The IC will still be the same (front spring length)
but the location of the IC would move rearward IF
you made the front hanger longer to move the axle
rearward... tire pressure might need changing...
7.5 seems low to me but thats a trial and error thing
based on the weight and tire size.... I think you
need to stiffen the shock and dont be afraid to go
to #9
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Re: launch issues
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1022167
07/05/11 10:12 AM
07/05/11 10:12 AM
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I#m out next week, i'm going to try 8 or 9 and at least 12psi and see what happens.
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: 493_DART]
#1022170
07/31/11 05:39 PM
07/31/11 05:39 PM
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For those that are interested, took the car out this weekend to santa pod for our mopar nats. Tried the shocks on 8, tyres at 12 psi, first run off the trailer ran a new best 10.28 with a best 60ft 1.45, pulled both wheels off the floor. Later in the day similar conditions upped the tyres to 13 psi and stiffened the right shock to 9, as the car was twisting on the line, ran another pb 10.24 with a 1.44 60 ft with even more air. Day after ran another 1.44 with even more air but shifted too early and only ran a 10.33. Had a starter motor issue but all in all very pleased and a great weekend. Thanks for all the tips Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1022172
07/31/11 06:07 PM
07/31/11 06:07 PM
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I went from 12 to 10.5 and it went from a 1.45 to 1.47, then i went up to 13 and it went 1.44.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: deaks]
#1022175
07/31/11 09:56 PM
07/31/11 09:56 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
I went from 12 to 10.5 and it went from a 1.45 to 1.47, then i went up to 13 and it went 1.44.
Mick
Good to hear its getting better... with the low pressure
you were most likely cupping the tires(less surface
area on the track)
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: deaks]
#1022176
07/31/11 10:16 PM
07/31/11 10:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig
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Congrats
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: Tig]
#1022177
08/01/11 05:10 PM
08/01/11 05:10 PM
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Thanks Tig and everyone else, there is youtube vid of the event with one of my runs 12 mins in but i dont know how to post it.
It's under "mopar euronats santa pod july 2011"
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: Mick70RR]
#1022179
08/01/11 06:08 PM
08/01/11 06:08 PM
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Cheers Mick
Well done on your first 11, i saw you run but not the 11 unfortunately, will perhaps ring you this week, to see how your weekend went.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: roadhazard]
#1022181
08/01/11 06:12 PM
08/01/11 06:12 PM
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Thanks Greg
If i could match your 60 ft maybe a high 10.1, that's if the moon and the stars all align at the same time.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: tboomer]
#1022183
08/01/11 06:29 PM
08/01/11 06:29 PM
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Thanks Ted
Just another thing worth mentioning, on one of my runs in the hotter part of the day, i switched my fan and water pump off during the run and with a slower et, it matched my best speed of the weekend, over 129.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: deaks]
#1022184
08/01/11 10:09 PM
08/01/11 10:09 PM
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Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
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Quote:
Thanks Ted
Just another thing worth mentioning, on one of my runs in the hotter part of the day, i switched my fan and water pump off during the run and with a slower et, it matched my best speed of the weekend, over 129.
Mick
Fan off = ok, water pump off = not ok 
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1022185
08/02/11 04:56 AM
08/02/11 04:56 AM
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Ok, maybe just fan in future, it only hit 180 at the end though.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: 493_DART]
#1022187
08/02/11 05:31 AM
08/02/11 05:31 AM
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It was not without pain though, as i broke the nose off the starter, which is the second time now in 6 mths. I suspect it's the ring gear on the converter, when it was delivered, the box had been dropped and it had a flat on one side which i managed to pull out but there was also a slight bend the other way, which I think is causing a buckled wheel effect.
Thanks Kevin, have pm'd you.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: deaks]
#1022188
08/02/11 09:41 AM
08/02/11 09:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
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 with 408strokerdart I turn my fan OFF just before I pre stage. The water pump needs to be running to help eliminate any hot spots in the heads or block. Last time out with my car 60' results Best 1.389 Worst 1.417 Average (6 passes) 1.4065 Difference .028 over 3 days/nights Most of the inconsistency was the driver not staging the car the same  That's what I get for being a keyboard racer 
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: roadhazard]
#1022189
08/02/11 06:33 PM
08/02/11 06:33 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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Pic of one of my runs last wk.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: launch issues ( update )
[Re: cudadon]
#1022191
08/02/11 08:08 PM
08/02/11 08:08 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
|
How go's it Don
I dont think i can match your times with it but maybe a high 10.1 if i'm very lucky.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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