My first new car (I was 17yrs.) is the '73 Sebring in the photo. There was about 10-12 of us in High School that were the Mopar Guys. I remember the cars weren't too bad. The biggest improvement on our muscle cars today, is we mostly all run on radials. If you drove on the bias tires long enough, you'd know what I mean. I hated the way the '71 and up b-body doors sounded when you closed them. Always gave that hollow sound. Not solid like the '70 and older b-bodies. Come to think of it, my '71 still makes that sound. But I woundn't trade those days of working on my car, even when I just drove it out of the dealer. Very little quality control. OH YA, as stated above, the starters sucked.


Fast

My dad and uncle started their Dodge dealership in Oct 68 (still in business). They've both told me that the A and B bodies were pretty good, and the C and E bodies were junk. The A bodies were cheaper in price and were usually equipped with dependable /6 or 318 power. Fit and finish were poor to fair. B bodies sold well but would develop rust problems on back window shortly after purchase. C bodies were new for 69 and had serious wind/water leaks. E bodies were the worst-klunky doors, terrible fit/finish, road noise, etc. Basically Mopars were good dependable cars, but not good finished cars. My dad recently registered for this board. I'll see if he cares to add to this thread.

basically they were very fast, the 67-71 models were pretty much K.O.S. from 67-74.
problems included:
severe tire noise and wear
induced state's of hysteria and
slight cases of neck strain - your's and gawkers
loud howling noises from back of carb/carbs
and my favorite ailment - the HEAVY foot!

Great thread, great post RUNCHARGER.

My one question would be on the paint. Sure, my car has some runs here and there, but it's wearing it's original paint, which still looks pretty good after 38 years--better than a lot of newer cars I see on the road.

My brother bought a 68 Dart GTS 340 4-speed car in 1972. I got to drive it in 1973 during the first gas crunch and I was working at a local gas station. I thought that Dart was very nice and man did it run hard. It also had a slightly rougher idle then most cars as it had the stick cam Mopar used in the 68 340 cars with the stick. My other brother had a 65 Monaco with a 426 wedge in it and it was a very nice riding and built car. It was also very comfortable as it had the console and factory tach. Maybe I just loved muscle cars to much to look for any bad features. There was just so many muscle cars everywhere back then that it was awesome. I would always fight with my buddies over who had the best cars as most of my buddies were Chevy heads. I always remember the guy up the street who had a 67 383 4-speed Cuda and it was black with the small red stripe. I would walk by his garage every day and it was an old garage with no doors on it so I could always get a good look at it. Man those were the days ! Ron

My first car was a 1950 Plymouth Special DeLuxe 4 dr with a flathead 6 and three on the tree. It was black with a back seat you could really stretch out in (don't ask me how I know). I bought it from the original owner with 53,000 mi on the odometer for a whopping $125.00 and it was in mint condition. It had an X frame with a torque tube (enclosed driveline). It seemed to need brakes about every 6 months (I wonder why?) and I got pretty good at pulling those @#$%^!* rear tapered axle shafts.
My next ride was a 1956 dodge s/w with a v-8 and a 2 speed auto with the shift lever on the dash. It always had marginal oil pressure and one day coming off the freeway the motor spun a bearing and at 30 mph the engine locked up! I was real happy it was an automatic right about then.
In those days you actually had to DRIVE the cars, ie manual drum (which way are they going to pull this time) brakes and manual steering with the associated 2 ft diameter steering wheel.
The A M radios (F M hadn't been invented yet?) would periodically require you to take them apart and replace several of the TUBES. (Ask your father!). If you had an automatic , you quickly learned the art of "Neutral Drops" which we used to call "Dumping the Tranny". This procedure got it's name from what you had to do with the transmission after about the 6th or 7th time you performed this manuver ! Anyway for you "young guns" out there, remember that THESE are your "good ole days" !!!

There are a few late model cars that get a HUGE amount of Miles on them be fore the croak!
I bought a '89 Chev Celebrity 4dr. that had died on the road near our house, the old fart who owned it thought he could make it to town (8 miles) after his engine over heated! And toasted the motor quite well!
It Had 512,365 KM ON IT! BONE STOCK! That one I know is rare!

The '86 Celebrity we use at the yard has 472,??? KM on it also, rusty as heck but will start ANYTIME!

My '88 Sedan DeVille has 375,650 KM on it before the head gasket went. (have to fix that too! )

My friends '85 Dodge D-150 Club Cab Tow Truck has about 800,000 KM on it and all that it has is instead of its factory 360, it has a junk yard 318 that was put in at about 600,000!
And he knows his MOPARS!

The paint thing is pretty interesting. Did you know back in the 30s & 40s the paint was put on with a brush? They would line up a bunch of cars in a wharehouse, and paint all the cars with the brush strokes going the same direction. After the paint dried they would sand it smooth and give it a second coat with the brush strokes going 90* from the first coat. They then sanded it again and give it the 3rd coat, again changing the brush strokes 90*. Another sand job then the 4th coat, with the brush strokes changed 90*. After the 4th coat dried, it was samded smooth and buffed out. The paint process took a month. (I saw this on PBS) Ever wonder why color choice was so limited back then? It's amazing how many of those 30s & 40s car still have paint on them.

I'm not sure, but by the late 60s I think they were dipping the cars in paint vats. When they started using the clearcoat,(mid 70s?) most of the paint problems were related to the wax available that was taking off the clear coat. The problem now is they don't have the water base paint down quite yet. You can probably thank the EPA for all or most of the changes in the painting processes (and the changes in the actual paint itself) since the mid 70s. The reason the paint still looks good on your 38 yo car is because it was still real paint. LOL Gene

I bought a 69 Hemi GTX new.I guess looking back the paint wasn't as nice as cars now.Fit & finish were nothing to write home about.But it was very comfortable and rode very smooth on the hiway.Of course with the puny bias ply tires you couldn't punch it without going sideways for a couple blocks.Somehow that never seemed to be a problem.LOL.The first time I ever tried to burn rubber,I pulled away from a stop sign turning right & stood on it.The next thing I knew I was facing the way I had come & my heart was beating so hard I thought I was gonna die!It spun completly around & scared the beejazus out of me.From then on I made sure I was pointed straight,had lots of room & a firm grip on the wheel before I hammered it.
The first modification I did was stuff some L50's under the rear to give it a little more bite.Then came headers.Finally I slipped a Racer Brown cam in it.There was nothing that could touch that car.They didn't even make bikes that fast then.Say what you will about new cars,That GTX was the only new car I've ever owned.I currently have 4 vehicles and the newest one is my daily driver 76 Dodge Warlock.Cookiecutter cars don't interest me in the least.These cars are rolling works of art.and as far as lasting is concerned I had a 68 /6 Valiant that had 460,000 miles on it when I sold it to a buddy.The front end had been rebuilt several times,the tranny twice,but the motor never had the head off.The original owner I bought it from was an accoutant who kept records of everything he did to the car.He was a oil change fanatic.It had 265,000 when I got it & I drove it for better than ten yrs.I called it the U/68 the MissUsed.I also called it Prince Valiant Cuz it was a Prince of a car

From 63CandyMatic....

Quote:

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Lastly, the crazy part is how bad they generally handled. Way overweight, noseheavy and overpowered, especially for the tires and suspensions of the time.

I think people were more responsible or at least more capable generally back then. If you sold someone a hemi car on redline non radial tires today, they'd crash leaving the dealership, and there would be a class action lawsuit against the corporation.

People today are wusses.

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First story: Bought a new Charger R/T new in 1971. Red, black top and interior, 440 Mag, Torqueflite, 3.55 sure grip.I really liked the machine gun exhaust tips! Sticker was A little over $4300, which was a lot of $$$$ then. I was working at the GM assembly plant in Framingham, Mass. Making almost $8 an hour. That was primo money back then. I had 2 cars and a new motorcycle, and lots of gas money. Good gas was less than .40 per gallon.....

The pluses: Sharp car! The color combo and Magnum 500 wheels made it stand out. Driveline was bullet proof. And the car was very fast! My fiancee' (now wife) had it up to 140 MPH!!!

The minuses: paint job was mediocre, lots of drips and minor imperfections. The stripes were crooked. The interior was cheap - the drivers seat split after the first year. Really liked gas, only got about 12 MPG on Sunoco 260.

Traded it in on a 1974 Camaro Z28 in 1974......Bad move.

Never saw another on the road. To this day, my wife says it was sharpest car we ever had....

Second Story: My best friend Rick got a brand new 1969 RoadRunner for his high school graduation present. Red, white interior, 383 Magnum, 4 speed, 3.91 gears, Air Grabber, Magnum 500 wheels.
Paid a little over $3000 for it. Great cruiser, with lots of low end.

Pluses: Exhuast had a real nice sound to it. 4 speed and Air Grabber - Does it get any better?

Minuses: Same as above. Mopars had great drivetrains and cheap interiors. The build quality on the RR was a little better than the Charger. Gas mileage was not good either, but at .40 per gallon, who cared?????

For all of you guys who are younger, the best part of this time period is these cars were EVERYWHERE. Walk thru a parking lot anywhere, and see all kinds of muscle machines. By the mid '70s, these cars were super cheap, due to the gas crisis. You could buy Cudas all day long for $1500.....

I was born in the musclecar heyday--1969. I had an older cousin who was driving when these cars were still plentiful--he always had a Camaro or Mustang--few Mopars....

I'm told by Chrysler Dealership owners, cops who drove Mopar cop cars "back in the day" and guys who bought these cars new that basically:

Mopar drivetrains were awesome.

The bodys were aweful!

Living in N.E. Ohio, Dusters tended to rust before they saw their second winter.

Dealerships had to finish the assembly of cars coming off the truck--dashes tossed onto the front seat, rear axles installed out of sqauare, etc.....Quality control was a bit, ah, lax...

But today, that isn't a problem--My Mopar rests in the garage when the salt spreader is out. The drivetrain is still awesome--You should see my GM/Ford lovers face when they see that big 8-3/4 axle under my Demon--"Is that stock???" Yep.

OK - in my immediate neighborbood (maybe 20 blocks or so) were the following musclecars that I rode in or drove when they were new or slightly used :

64 GTO, 65 GTO covert tri-power, 68 Olds 442, 69 Coronet R/T , 70 Superbee, 69 Roadrunner, 70 Chevelle SS 454, '69 Camaro Z-28, 70 AAR Cuda, 72 Demon GSS (Mr Norm's), Firebird 400 (2), '64 Dodge 440 (383/4spd/3.91 SG - MINE) There was also a 66 or 67 Ford 500 with 7? litre badge that I never rode in.Also, a guy in a black Hemi Coronet visited his relatives in the neighborhood quite often , but was a "family man" and drove very conservatively.

Both GTOs were POSes ! I remember the shifter on the '64 detaching while the kid drove it ! The Tri-power was an absolute dog (another 4 speed).I had the misfortune of driving it home for my buddy who couldn't drive stick at the time. Are you reading this, Bear ?

The Firebirds were very quick and hairy rides (both 4-speeds), and the quality was so-so

The Olds 442 was quick and beautiful , but was a convertible, so automatically qualified the guy who drove it as a "poser". The verts were heavier and more expensive, of course. A very expensive musclecar for the day. More of a show piece in the day.

That 442 guy "babied" his ride , as did the Chevelle (454) owner. I was in the car the first day he got it, and I was dazzled by the interior and quiet. I guess I was surprised by how un-muscular it sounded.On the other hand, the Z28 looked and sounded like a "race car". The kid's grandmother had bought it for him, and he drove the tires off of it ! It just wasn't that quick, and the quality was average for the day. The Camaros were among the worst "rusters" a little later on, BTW.

That leads me to the Mopars. The thing I remember the most about the Superbees and Roadrunners when they were new was the hairy induction roar they had when stomped. A very deep and awesome rush of air - that I haven't seen duplicated on these restos of today(yet) I believe they had special aircleaners for this effect, and you didn't hear any other mechanical noises from the engines.

The now overrated (IMHO) E-bodies weren't very popular when they came out. Everybody hated the chintzy plastic interiors and high prices. The AAR in the 'hood was "snot green", and not all that fast (sorry, AAR owners ) At this time the fit and finish were really going downhill, though the engines/trans still had good reliability .

Finally, that '69 Coronet R/T was the BEST. It had the 440 4spped (turquoise), and the build quality was great It was practically unbeatable -what a car. The GTXs were just as fine - but I never rode/drove one - just got beat by 1 or 2.

As someone else noted, NOBODY expected these cars to last more than 60K or so. Very many were abandoned (literally) during the gas crisis. And, for the purists, the majority were rather quickly "modded" with new wheels/radios/tachs/mufflers, whatever was cheap and easy and looked good. In a few years, the era was over, but I remember its demise as being more insurance-related than anything else. Whew !

I was born in '69, 4 years after my car, so I missed out on all the good stuff. The first "factory" fast car I rode in was in the late '70s, and I LOVED the way that car rode and accelerated. It was my uncle's Mr. Norm's prepped 69 1/2 440-6 Super Bee and it was a rocketship!

I set out to buy my first new car in 1970. At the time, I really liked all the Mopar colors with their cute names. I looked at Dusters, RoadRunners, and 'Cudas. I skipped the Dodges because I wasn't too impressed with the dealers here in Houston. But I was so turned off by the cheap interiors, that I bought a Torino (which ran like crap).

Very long

My first new car was a '63 Fury w/ the 415 Horse Super Stock Motor. I had ordered the Sports Fury, but when I went to the dealer (Highland Park Motors in Illinois) They received just? a Fury.
It's my signature car.
Anyhow I remember when I got there only the showroom was open. The salesman walked me back into the shop area, and there she sat. All clean and looking good. All concerns about not having bucket seats, and the extras that came with a Sports Fury left quickly.
The salesman first opens the hood, he says “anything missing" I look around see the 2 big black air cleaners that "Orange Monster" engine, those big chunks of cast iron exhaust manifolds.
So I say "yep everything's here"
He says "where is the battery?" I guess I really looked stupid when I said "I don't know, where is the battery?".
He then opens the trunk, and botta boom, there's the biggest battery I'd even seen, sitting in the trunk on the passengers side. With all them hoses sticking down thru the trunk floor, sure looked strange. To this day I cannot remember dual Negative battery cables, as most "restorations" or clones have. I don't think my car had them.
Anyhow I get behind the wheel the salesman says pull the choke lever out, and start her up. Thought I was going to need 2 legs to push the clutch pedal in. Well I got it started, and killed it at least three times before I got it out the back door.
Other cars that I rode in back in those days were a a "58 Chewy Impala owned by a guy named "EM" w/ 348 in³ "Tri-Power" engine a 59 Chevy Impala 348 "Tri Power", a '60 Catalina 348 TriPower.
I also had the pleasure of a one time Drag race (in someone else’s car, had plenty in my car)on Eden’s Expressway (for you Chi-town fans), driving my buddies '63 Red Corvette split window coupe in a race, 60 mph punch, against a 63 Imp w/ a "409" 4 speed and 4.56 gears. Ray's Vette had 327 four speed car (I think it was rated around 330-340 horses), And a 3.08 rear gear. Gosh that Vette was long winded (I know so am I). So here we go, Ray's driving my Fury, and when the Imp and the Vette lined up at 60, Ray honks the horn.
The Impala's in second & pulled me right away, I wrapped that tach to 6500 or so in First, when I banged Second gear Ray said the Vette's wheels came off the ground, wasn't long till the Imp ran out of gear, I sailed by him, and Ray was the proud recipient of $50 for the race.
The Drive-in (Skokie Il.) we all hung out in looked like American Graffiti, cause it was. I had the only Mopar (as I recall), Rays Vette was there plus the Impala, a Furd Fairlane w/ a 406" and three deuces, A couple of Ponchos w/ the 421" Tri-Power motors. An older '56 Ford Fairlane drop top with a '59 Caddy three deuce motor owned by a guy named Beirbaum. We all had race on another and I guess you guys probably don't know which car was the lightest(except for the Vette), and fastest 2 door hardtop there.
Great times in the early 60's I'd go back right now, no question about it.
MaxWedge

I can still remember going to Quigley Ave, the street racing mecca in Cleveland around 75 or 76. Lots of great muscle, and lots or pretenders. The Mopars pretty well held their own. The fastest car I remember was a tacky brown primer B-body owned by two brothers who looked like they just rolled of the set of Deliverance. Looked like they hadn't bathed or changed clothes in a week, but man could they make that car fly.

I graduated high school in '69. Muscle cars where everywhere.Unless you had something special, it was no big deal!Just another car. They where everywhere! Street racing(stop light to stop light)was very commom. Even if you didn't have a true muscle car, you still raced your buddy in his Corvair or his dad's '62 chevy with 283c.i. If I'd had the money and the forsight, I would have bought a lot of different cars then I did. But again, it wasn't a big deal. all the guys had some type of muscle car.When the gas embargo came in the mid '70's I sold my '71 Charger and bought a new '74 Datsun B210, just for the gas mileage. DUMB!!Took a real beating on the Charger, Couldn't give them away!If I had the cars then, that I do now, Man the chicks I could have had, and races I could have won! Oh well enough from the old guy...

Mopar vinyl seats lasted about 50K miles before they started ripping and that was in mild climate weather. I think the hotter climates caused them to harden up and start ripping sooner.
Also carpet started getting worn about the same time seats started ripping. Back in the late 70's I got a quote to completely recover my 1971 Duster bucket seats. Try $1000 back then (1979)! They said it was because of the many pieces and that they were all double stiched. They said they were the most costly and difficult seats to redo of all the brands.