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Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
#1009484
06/08/11 07:03 PM
06/08/11 07:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
Adrielp
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
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This is a theory question for you guys because quite simply this project well beyond me at the moment but nonetheless, I would to hear you guys imput on building an engine of this calibe given just a few limitaton.
Must utilize a stock bore spacing 400 Block.
Must be naturally aspirated
Must utilize the 3.38 stroke or smaller.
The rest is up to you guys. Tell me what works, what won't. Have fun with it and any good info is welcome and appreciated
Oh, and I am aware of the 1000HP stock block breaking threshold so no warnings are needed there.
Adriel Paradise
Substation Design Engineer III
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: Adrielp]
#1009485
06/08/11 07:08 PM
06/08/11 07:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
topfueldart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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Full tilt Predator heads and all associated parts. Wind it to the moon. Then watch it all scatter into pieces.
11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.
9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: Adrielp]
#1009490
06/08/11 08:19 PM
06/08/11 08:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,135
Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,135
Melbourne , Australia
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I have my reservations the block would survive. It would take a Predator or B1 PSO head to do it I think, along with sky high compression and RPM. I also think the valvetrain would destroy itself before you got there trying.
How large a cam core can you machine a factory block out for?
Alan Jones
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: Adrielp]
#1009494
06/08/11 08:53 PM
06/08/11 08:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 945
La Vernia, Texas
Pat7272
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 945
La Vernia, Texas
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Quote:
Must utilize a stock bore spacing 400 Block
Guys - I dont think an aftermarket block is out of the question. The given parameter is to maintain stock bore SPACING.
As for the question - thats 2.5hp/in, its gonna be tough
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: RemCharger]
#1009495
06/08/11 09:15 PM
06/08/11 09:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
go green
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
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Quote:
Can be done. 426 guys make 900 -1000 with stock heads. Are Preddys better than S/S hemi heads?
Predators probably flow around 100CFM more than a S/S hemi head.
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: Pat7272]
#1009496
06/08/11 09:27 PM
06/08/11 09:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
Adrielp
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
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Quote:
Quote:
Must utilize a stock bore spacing 400 Block
Guys - I dont think an aftermarket block is out of the question. The given parameter is to maintain stock bore SPACING.
As for the question - thats 2.5hp/in, its gonna be tough
As for that 400, we have a bunch sitting around. I'm curious as to what can be done to increase its ability to stay together without spending the 3500+ for a block. Keep in mind this is a project for the future so this conversation is evaluating the future possibilities. My initial plan is SS/AM, my final goal is A/SMA. SS/AM only requires 9-10k. A/SMA however requires above 10k.
Essentially, we are hypothesizing a high winding motor were the valvetrain has to live. I was initially thinking that Predators or biggest B1's would be nice but both require bore sizes bigger than what can be safely had in a stock 400. I know that there is a formula or something for that relates HP potential, intake runner cc, and head flow but we all know head flow is just a number. Shape and air flow charateristics are supposed to be more important. But here is the thing though, is that those bigger heads will always choke the smaller bore engine at any rpm or that it would only choke it to a certain rpm. Also, is there not a semi machined version of either head available, if so, I could adjust valve size and ports such that its suitable for my needs. These are things I'm trying to rap my head around now so I know how to approach it later. Again any extra info is much appreciated.
PS: I though Jesel could make any valvetrain remain stable at crazy rpm's lol
Adriel Paradise
Substation Design Engineer III
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: go green]
#1009497
06/08/11 09:31 PM
06/08/11 09:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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4.495 bore x 3.15 stroke in a koleno block plus $80k and a six pack on top 
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: RemCharger]
#1009499
06/08/11 09:51 PM
06/08/11 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
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Well it's not that difficult:
Find a "230" casting 400 block
Ported Stage V Hemi head conversion
Big cam .800" lift, 290* @ .050
Twin dominator tunnel ram
15:1 compression ratio
dry sump
edit: forgot to post stock size crank and bore
Throw on some big headers and it dynoed 1008hp at 9500 floating the valves on my Engine analyzer Pro simulator lol
Last edited by moparmanjames; 06/08/11 09:55 PM.
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: Adrielp]
#1009501
06/08/11 10:12 PM
06/08/11 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
moparmanjames
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,260
Las Vegas NV
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Quote:
Quote:
Well it's not that difficult:
Find a "230" casting 400 block
Ported Stage V Hemi head conversion
Big cam .800" lift, 290* @ .050
Twin dominator tunnel ram
15:1 compression ratio
dry sump
edit: forgot to post stock size crank and bore
Throw on some big headers and it dynoed 1008hp at 9500 floating the valves on my Engine analyzer Pro simulator lol
Thats some funny stuff right there lol. I do know that it can be done, I just don't if any of the heads available will support it.
Because Larry Pritchett's 390ish ci BBC made well over a 1000HP a year or two ago. But of course, it wouldn't be fun if it wasn't a Mopar
It can easily be done, Formula 1 engines just a few years ago displacing 3.5 liters (roughly 210 ci) were reving to 18000 rpm and making 950 hp.
Pro Stock trucks were 358ci and made 980hp.
It would probably be just as doable with a smallblock.
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: moparmanjames]
#1009502
06/08/11 11:11 PM
06/08/11 11:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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This is rare air, building a motor like this, at least for me! My guess is toss around the idea of a PSO head,B1TS,or Brewers, testing to find out the minimum bore size for no valve shrouding. Then run more stroke to keep the piston dome size down. Over size roller bearing cam, Pistons, rings etc picked by the best power producer in the engine building world that you can find. Dry sump, high vacuum, every trick you can do to a crank to reduce windage. You will wind up with a rod of almost 7.10 length, rod ratio of 2.25 or so. I don't know how that will affect things, but it will have to be looked at. An after market block may have the deck thickness to reduce the deck height quite a bit. If you are certain you will try using a stock block, then a center counter weighted crank will help.
Basically, I would be looking for an engine builder with experience in high Hp comp classes, or pro stock. They would be able to sort through this stuff and figure out an engine program that will meet the goals.
I don't see a problem making 1000+ hp, just how fat the wallet is. This stuff is real high $$.
Last edited by gregsdart; 06/08/11 11:23 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Build me a 1000HP 400ci NA engine...........
[Re: gregsdart]
#1009503
06/09/11 05:30 AM
06/09/11 05:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
RemCharger
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,825
Sk. Canada
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Quote:
This is rare air, building a motor like this, at least for me! My guess is toss around the idea of a PSO head,B1TS,or Brewers, testing to find out the minimum bore size for no valve shrouding. Then run more stroke to keep the piston dome size down. Over size roller bearing cam, Pistons, rings etc picked by the best power producer in the engine building world that you can find. Dry sump, high vacuum, every trick you can do to a crank to reduce windage. You will wind up with a rod of almost 7.10 length, rod ratio of 2.25 or so. I don't know how that will affect things, but it will have to be looked at. An after market block may have the deck thickness to reduce the deck height quite a bit. If you are certain you will try using a stock block, then a center counter weighted crank will help.
Basically, I would be looking for an engine builder with experience in high Hp comp classes, or pro stock. They would be able to sort through this stuff and figure out an engine program that will meet the goals.
I don't see a problem making 1000+ hp, just how fat the wallet is. This stuff is real high $$.
Great thread. Greg nailed it to a tee,, I think one main ingreidiant is the seven one hundred rod to deal with the poor dwell time at rpm and rod angularity... I remember a member on here ,Hutch running a unique 383 combo with VI heads and that rod.
At RPM that S/R ratio wants to rip the pin out of the piston.. 
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Look at it another way-------- you're asking a n/a 400 cu. in. engine to live & produce more than 2hp/cu in.. Given those restrictions & parameters, IMO, it can't be done-next project!
