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904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) #1004715
06/01/11 10:06 PM
06/01/11 10:06 PM
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Posts: 1,745
Maryland
340_Dart Offline OP
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I've decided i'm going to make the switch in my valiant from 727 to 904 in hopes of picking up the .15-.2 everyone says a 904 will net you.

So anyhow, i gathered up some local 904s and need some advice on what's the best plan of attack as far as parts to use and upgrades needed to survive my low 10 second 3000# car running a transbrake.

I've got a 73 and a 74 904, and an 86 999 transmission. I'd really like to be able to use the 5 clutch high gear drum from the 999, but am planning on holding off on using the low gear set. I'd like to see the back to back difference of standard gear 904 vs 727. Maybe later the low gear set will sneak it's way into the transmission.

What is the best case to build this transmission from? What changes are needed to run the 999 drum? Necessary modifications to the transmission to make it live? And finally, what's a good rebuild kit to use for it? thanks for listening! Andy

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: 340_Dart] #1004716
06/01/11 10:37 PM
06/01/11 10:37 PM
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Posts: 492
South Jersey, NJ
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DragDart360 Offline
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South Jersey, NJ
Would it not be less expensive to upgrade the engine than the trans?
What are the engine specs?


70 Dart Swinger, 2850 lbs
SB 408, Bullet roller 264/268 @50 .636 SSDS stage 2 Edelbrock heads, 1 7/8 Headmans, 1050 dominator by Dom, 9.867 @ 133
Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: DragDart360] #1004717
06/01/11 11:00 PM
06/01/11 11:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: 340_Dart] #1004718
06/01/11 11:07 PM
06/01/11 11:07 PM
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Ambridge, Pa.
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rickraw Offline
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i'm running a, i think it's a 1971 904. 440 sb, 9.69@138.50. according to a&a, drum isn't a problem. billet low rev servo, red alto plates, harden strut, use teflon seal rings on support. line pressure is critical. should hold up with 180#, since 904 plates have a smaller surface area than a 727. i have a low 1st gear, 60'-1.30. stay safe, seeya.

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: DragDart360] #1004719
06/01/11 11:44 PM
06/01/11 11:44 PM
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Lubbock,TX
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DavidDean Offline
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You most likley would want a later case(lock-up) as it has a slightly better sprag.(Mine are both earlier)I would always use a rollerized ouput shaft support w modified shaft.I move the vent to the tail shaft. I like a double wrap rear band.I've rollerized my rotating assembly but it doesnt pick you up much.I always use as many rear clutches as I can get,I think 4 is all you can get in one.The pump and front drum are the tricky area to get the right parts as you cant use any lock up pieces as your front drum wont seal right. I like the widest front band I can get to fit right. I also like the scarf cut sealing rings.Also I use the multi spring pack in the front drum.The sealing rings and spring pack are from A&A.I really like the 2.74 1st gear. My car leaves hard w/ 1.27 60'.There was several posts in the archives that might help w/ proper part selection.Thats all I remember off the top of my head.I've probobly left out a few things.

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: DavidDean] #1004720
06/01/11 11:51 PM
06/01/11 11:51 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Look up Dizusters archive post on swapping the front drum/pump parts. Do it wrong and you'll be chasing your tail with high gear clutch failures. It took forever to figure it out. We asked EVERYONE.
Doug

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: rickraw] #1004721
06/01/11 11:54 PM
06/01/11 11:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,745
Maryland
340_Dart Offline OP
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I'm not saying the combination on the motor is perfect, but I doubt there's anything I can do to pick up .2 for the price of builiding a 904.

408 bottom end, steel k1 crank, k1 rods, diamond flat top pistons, factory block
Indy 360-2 cnc heads, Indy intake converted to dominator flange.
1050 dominator
262,268@ .050 solid roller. .698 lift
10.3:1 compression. Pump gas motor

3000# race weight valiant
4.56 gear, 29.5x10.5 slick, ladder bar car
727 with transbrake, 5400 converter

The only thing I think that would pick the car up would be to increase compression to 11-11.5 compression. However, with the Indy moved exhaust valve, there is no radial clearance on the exhaust valve relief...

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: DavidDean] #1004722
06/02/11 12:06 AM
06/02/11 12:06 AM
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Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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Mt. Vernon, Ohio
I also replace all the bushings and thrust washers, multi spring retainer as shown before, and I buy my kit's from Mancini, MRE 006 has the blue plates and kolene steel also a kevlar intermediate band (don't use it with a aluminum drum)use the 999 high gear drun and you will have to have the back of the pump machined for clearance, reenforced band strut and do the oiling mod's that I believe are in the tech section or the archives,, and also keep the line pressure up if you use the TA valve body it has only about 125# of line pressure, need to get that up around 150# or a little more, A@A has a spring you can replace on the VB that will up the pressure and greatly improve the action of the VB and clamps the clutches harder.


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: dartman366] #1004723
06/02/11 01:31 AM
06/02/11 01:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,745
Maryland
340_Dart Offline OP
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Anyone have a link to these oiling mods? I'm having trouble finding them. Thanks- Andy

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: 340_Dart] #1004724
06/02/11 02:47 AM
06/02/11 02:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
DemonDust Offline
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Menomonee Falls
Just use an early trans, so you don't have to deal with the lock up stuff which HP parts are limitied.

You don't need the bigger drum from the 999. You can buy thinner discs and run 5 in the 904 drum. You will also need a shim kit to get proper clearance. And mixing parts is a PITA. Don't deal with that headache.

Put good bands, clutches, and steels in. Get a Valve body from A&A, rebuild the trans, put in a blocker rod and put in a billet piston and 4.2 lever.

I have nothing else done to my trans and I'm running it with a 7100 stall. 878 hp 563 tq...

No trans brake though, so Rick may be able to recommend what else you HAVE to do.

I have less than $800 in my trans besides the trick custom valve body Rick built me. I have 37 1/8 mile passes and 52 street miles on it. No issues and the oil pan shows no problems...

Just my



SDG Motorsports
Hellcat Demon and Redeye Supercharger CNC Porting
https://www.sdgmotorsports.com/
Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: 340_Dart] #1004725
06/02/11 03:07 AM
06/02/11 03:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,253
Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
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Florida STAYcation
It has been a loooong while since I have done any 904 work .... but try and find some of the green metallic waffle Raybestos front clutches. NEVER seen a failure with those pieces.

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #1004726
06/02/11 06:40 AM
06/02/11 06:40 AM
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Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
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Everything that needs to be said has already been said but I don't think you'll see 2 tenths, especially without the low gear. I think you'll be lucky to see .08.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: Guitar Jones] #1004727
06/02/11 06:50 AM
06/02/11 06:50 AM
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On the south side of Nowhere
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S/ST 3040 Offline
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904 is 27 lbs lighter with 17 lbs of it rotating. Call Rick Allison at A&A.

4.56 gear and 29.5" tire?! Woohoo!

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: Guitar Jones] #1004728
06/02/11 06:58 AM
06/02/11 06:58 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Its funny all of the guys running 904's in fast big cube small blocks. I just blew the crap out of mine and was considering going to the 727 with the kind of HP my stroker W2 is making...But it looks like you guys have made them work, so maybe I will rebuild the 904 I have and get the convertor freshened.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: S/ST 3040] #1004729
06/02/11 07:21 AM
06/02/11 07:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
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Quote:

904 is 27 lbs lighter with 17 lbs of it rotating. Call Rick Allison at A&A.

4.56 gear and 29.5" tire?! Woohoo!




Yeah I know. I think they are worth more behind a small cube low torque engine, especially with the low gear set. Behind a large cube small block not so much. I know two guys, both big blocks, one is a Super Stock car and the other a Stocker. Both of them bought the high dollar ProTrans units and they didn't see but .15 at best and that could have been the weather.

I have a 904 in my car with the low gear but I went from a 4 speed to the 904 mainly because of the weight. Now I can tell you the low gear set really woke my car up when it was a 340 cube engine.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: S/ST 3040] #1004730
06/02/11 07:49 AM
06/02/11 07:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,745
Maryland
340_Dart Offline OP
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Quote:


4.56 gear and 29.5" tire?! Woohoo!




Alright Vic, I gotta ask, what's the comment mean? Too much gear?

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: 340_Dart] #1004731
06/02/11 10:18 AM
06/02/11 10:18 AM
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Posts: 6,130
Melbourne , Australia
LA360 Offline
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Big HP 904 I would run a 5.0 lever, but a 4.2 is the next best thing. 904's need the clamping force. 904's will break input shafts from time to time, but I would only worry about it when you actually break one.


Alan Jones
Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: 340_Dart] #1004732
06/02/11 01:18 PM
06/02/11 01:18 PM
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Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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S/ST 3040 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


4.56 gear and 29.5" tire?! Woohoo!




Alright Vic, I gotta ask, what's the comment mean? Too much gear?




I think it's a little much but, at 131.5 MPH, you are probably less than 7200 RPM.
I know Bill Hart runs the same tire and gear and Lonnie used to run 4.88's
with 32" tire.

I guess I really can't point any fingers in the tire/gear department.

You definetly won't need the 2:74 1st gear! I don't.

Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: S/ST 3040] #1004733
06/02/11 04:18 PM
06/02/11 04:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,600
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Guitar Jones Offline
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


4.56 gear and 29.5" tire?! Woohoo!




Alright Vic, I gotta ask, what's the comment mean? Too much gear?




I think it's a little much but, at 131.5 MPH, you are probably less than 7200 RPM.
I know Bill Hart runs the same tire and gear and Lonnie used to run 4.88's
with 32" tire.

I guess I really can't point any fingers in the tire/gear department.

You definetly won't need the 2:74 1st gear! I don't.




I had 5.13's with a 29.5 tire with a 340. Shifted at 8000 went through the lights at 8100. But I had W5 heads too.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: 904 builders/racers... advice needed (long) [Re: S/ST 3040] #1004734
06/02/11 10:07 PM
06/02/11 10:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366 Offline
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dartman366  Offline
I Live Here

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Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


4.56 gear and 29.5" tire?! Woohoo!




Alright Vic, I gotta ask, what's the comment mean? Too much gear?




I think it's a little much but, at 131.5 MPH, you are probably less than 7200 RPM.
I know Bill Hart runs the same tire and gear and Lonnie used to run 4.88's
with 32" tire.

I guess I really can't point any fingers in the tire/gear department.

You definetly won't need the 2:74 1st gear! I don't.


mine actually went quicker with the standard 2.45 1st gear, unless you are way heavy and low horsepower then don't waste your time with it.


Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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