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BSB67
master


Reged: Feb 19 2005
Loc: Prospect, PA
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7870989 - Mon Sep 30 2013 06:14 PM

You are getting a lot of conflicting info here. Some say gear and converter, others say "more power".

Your time slip actually points to one on these as the place to focus if you want better ets and mph. Quite simply, it is not the gear/converter. Unless of course there is something wrong with the converter that it is eating hp (possible).

When you look at the generally accepted formula for dissecting quarter mile data, it shows that if your had a perfect racing suspension (this includes gear and converter) you best possible et is about 13.9.

These empirically derived formula are pretty reflective of reality. However, certain conditions can alter the conclusions drawn. These conditions include motor related problems that cause the motor to be down on power at the end of the track (i.e. skewing the et/60" times relative to the mph), examples include ignition cut out, or fuel starvation. When power, or mph seem down, always check that you don't have a fuel delivery problem.

IIRC, your post asked what we thought about your quarter mile performance relative to what you have, and not necessarily what is need to go quicker/faster. I still maintain that you are not that far off and hold to my previous suggestions to make what you have perform better. My sense from your post was."..what should it run with what I have", not "...what could it run if I throw a bunch of money/changes at it".

Also, like someone else said, wind and atmospheric conditions can have a very measurable effect on performance.

Tell us what day and track you were at.

--------------------

500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes
4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter
11.68 @ 120.2 mph


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dustergirl340
No drunken internet weirdos allowed.


Reged: Sep 20 2004
Loc: Michigan, USA, Earth
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7871022 - Mon Sep 30 2013 06:29 PM

You can also post this in the race section. Lots of street/strip guys on there with tons of knowledge.

--------------------

Whoever said diamonds are a girl's best friend never owned a V8


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67Satty
super stock


Reged: Aug 03 2007
Loc: Oceanside, California
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dustergirl340]
      #7871076 - Mon Sep 30 2013 07:03 PM

Besides getting the actual weight of your car, finding out the DA at the track will go a long way to finding out where you are at for a baseline.

This website works well, just punch in your track, date, and time of run from your timeslip:

http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density-altitude-calculator.php


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RobX4406
I Live Here


Reged: Apr 19 2005
Loc: Overpriced Housing Central
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: 67Satty]
      #7871510 - Mon Sep 30 2013 09:56 PM

Which bushing do you have on the distributor? If it's not the black one, install that and reset your timing and carb setting.

If you slapped the distributor in as delivered, it's got a garbage tune on it. Also change the spring from teh garage door openers that are on it to a light silver and blue spring.

It's missing a bunch of power with the doggy MPH and is a soggy banana done low is my bet.

If that thing is tuned with proper fuel delivery and running right it should go low 13's easily. A 360, xe268H LD340, 350ish hp on a dyno in a 3300# a body ran over 104 in vegas in bad air. OP has got more cam from a lift perspective and better heads.


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dfsmopars
mopar addict


Reged: Aug 13 2007
Loc: Kentucky
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: BSB67]
      #7871779 - Tue Oct 01 2013 05:41 AM

Quote:

You are getting a lot of conflicting info here. Some say gear and converter, others say "more power".

Your time slip actually points to one on these as the place to focus if you want better ets and mph. Quite simply, it is not the gear/converter. Unless of course there is something wrong with the converter that it is eating hp (possible).

When you look at the generally accepted formula for dissecting quarter mile data, it shows that if your had a perfect racing suspension (this includes gear and converter) you best possible et is about 13.9.

These empirically derived formula are pretty reflective of reality. However, certain conditions can alter the conclusions drawn. These conditions include motor related problems that cause the motor to be down on power at the end of the track (i.e. skewing the et/60" times relative to the mph), examples include ignition cut out, or fuel starvation. When power, or mph seem down, always check that you don't have a fuel delivery problem.

IIRC, your post asked what we thought about your quarter mile performance relative to what you have, and not necessarily what is need to go quicker/faster. I still maintain that you are not that far off and hold to my previous suggestions to make what you have perform better. My sense from your post was."..what should it run with what I have", not "...what could it run if I throw a bunch of money/changes at it".

Also, like someone else said, wind and atmospheric conditions can have a very measurable effect on performance.

Tell us what day and track you were at.




The day was sunnny and at the time of the run it was about 78 and the RH was pretty low at about 60%. There was a slight cross wind coming across from right to left.
Seems the car has something left on the table as it is built and it'd be nice to find the optimum set up with the equipment currently installed then move on to better things down the road. Gears and carb are definitely in its future but not right now. Life demands more thoughtful spending these days.


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CoDart
member


Reged: Oct 06 2011
Loc: Fort Collins, Colorado
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7871878 - Tue Oct 01 2013 07:38 AM

Heres my setup which is very similar to yours:
3450lb Dart(with me)
Magnum 360 with 9.5 compression, RHS indy heads, 228/232 .540 lift cam, 904 3500rpm stall, 3.91 gears,275/60/15 et radial tires. 85 octane gas. Ran a 13.8@98mph(1.91 60ft). Keep in mind this was at 5500ft above sea level and was 8400 DA that day, this would equal out to a high 12 second car at sea level. With your set up a larger carb would help out. I went from a 600cfm edelbrock to a 950DP holley and it went from 95mph to 98mph instantly without no tuning or changes on anything else. That change is about 25-30hp gain by a simple carb swap. My timing is set at 38* advanced. With a few changes to your combo you will be seeing low 14s high 13s


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SomeCarGuy
non-partisan


Reged: Feb 02 2003
Loc: Someplace you aren't
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7872145 - Tue Oct 01 2013 11:33 AM

The 60 foot is good to get into the 13's with. The ET and MPH are indicating the engine is not producing at the end of the run. While the ignition might not be perfect, it is more likely fuel that needs attention.

--------------------
I work 7 days a week. 8 when I'm able.


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dfsmopars
mopar addict


Reged: Aug 13 2007
Loc: Kentucky
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7872304 - Tue Oct 01 2013 01:10 PM

Gears and carb are definitely in its future but not right now. Life demands more thoughtful spending these days.



With the swell of information now it's time to play more with the dist and timing. Sounds like the car is not too far off. Appears all the information needed has been posted so I'll print it out and work through it.
Perhaps the most beneficial trial is a much different carb. Who has a 750 DP laying around?


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feets
Paid by Mercedes to live on Moparts


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Irving, TX
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7872431 - Tue Oct 01 2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Who has a 750 DP laying around?





Throwing street use out the window?

A DP is the last carb you need on the street. It'll suck fuel like no tomorrow. Every time the pedal moves they shoot fuel on both sides.
You should be able to tune a single pump carb to perform perfectly on that kind of engine. The second pump shooter is best saved for the bracket guys.

--------------------
Size matters.



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Triple Threat
BabyB1


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Renton Washington
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: feets]
      #7872444 - Tue Oct 01 2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Who has a 750 DP laying around?





Throwing street use out the window?

A DP is the last carb you need on the street. It'll suck fuel like no tomorrow. Every time the pedal moves they shoot fuel on both sides.





Wrong... The linkage is still progressive. Stay out of the secondaries and you'll be fine. I daily drove my dart for years with the 340 and a 4150 750. The car ran 12.30@107 and would get 15MPG @3600# with 3.91 gears and 26" tire. BUT, I dont think the carb is the issue, its probably multitude of things making this a mismatched/ underperforming combo.

The OP needs to weigh that thing before we get into too much detail. Yes MPH seems low, but that car could be pretty heavy which would explain most of that.

--------------------
~Dustin


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dustergirl340
No drunken internet weirdos allowed.


Reged: Sep 20 2004
Loc: Michigan, USA, Earth
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: Triple Threat]
      #7872464 - Tue Oct 01 2013 03:25 PM

Quote:

I daily drove my dart for years with the 340 and a 4150 750. The car ran 12.30 @107 and would get 15MPG @3600# with 3.91 gears and 26" tire.




Mine runs 12.40's at 107 with a 340, same carb, same gears, and 28" tall tire and gets 14MPG.

--------------------

Whoever said diamonds are a girl's best friend never owned a V8


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feets
Paid by Mercedes to live on Moparts


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Irving, TX
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: Triple Threat]
      #7872483 - Tue Oct 01 2013 03:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Who has a 750 DP laying around?





Throwing street use out the window?

A DP is the last carb you need on the street. It'll suck fuel like no tomorrow. Every time the pedal moves they shoot fuel on both sides.





Wrong... The linkage is still progressive. Stay out of the secondaries and you'll be fine.




Touch the secondaries (easy to do when entering the highway and such) and you're sucking down fuel.
Again, the DP carbs are best left to racers. A *GASP* vacuum secondary carb would be more than enough for this setup.

--------------------
Size matters.



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feets
Paid by Mercedes to live on Moparts


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Irving, TX
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dustergirl340]
      #7872490 - Tue Oct 01 2013 03:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I daily drove my dart for years with the 340 and a 4150 750. The car ran 12.30 @107 and would get 15MPG @3600# with 3.91 gears and 26" tire.




Mine runs 12.40's at 107 with a 340, same carb, same gears, and 28" tall tire and gets 14MPG.




Mine had a twin turbocharged blow through carbed 440 with 3.23 gears and a 28" tire. It got 17 mpg. Adding the EFI maintained the mpg but added drivability.

It's all about the combo.

--------------------
Size matters.



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dustergirl340
No drunken internet weirdos allowed.


Reged: Sep 20 2004
Loc: Michigan, USA, Earth
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: feets]
      #7872502 - Tue Oct 01 2013 04:00 PM

Mine has great driveabilty on the street, and I'm perfectly fine with 14MPG. It's a toy, not a daily driver.

--------------------

Whoever said diamonds are a girl's best friend never owned a V8


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RobX4406
I Live Here


Reged: Apr 19 2005
Loc: Overpriced Housing Central
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: Triple Threat]
      #7872503 - Tue Oct 01 2013 04:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Who has a 750 DP laying around?





Throwing street use out the window?

A DP is the last carb you need on the street. It'll suck fuel like no tomorrow. Every time the pedal moves they shoot fuel on both sides.





Wrong... The linkage is still progressive. Stay out of the secondaries and you'll be fine. I daily drove my dart for years with the 340 and a 4150 750. The car ran [Email]12.30@107[/Email] and would get 15MPG @3600# with 3.91 gears and 26" tire. BUT, I dont think the carb is the issue, its probably multitude of things making this a mismatched/ underperforming combo.

The OP needs to weigh that thing before we get into too much detail. Yes MPH seems low, but that car could be pretty heavy which would explain most of that.




BINGO!

Drive a DP with any sense of what you are doing and mileage is not an issue. If you have a lead foot and always mat it from a light, mileage will stink. It's all in the right foot.

13.60-104, 20 mpg on the highway with a 4779 750dp. It got 14-15 around town...

My guess, OP needs to fix the initial timing, bushing, springs FIRST! Don't do anything else until you get that sorted out.

Vacuum carbs easily give up 2 tenths at the track compared to a DP.


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BSB67
master


Reged: Feb 19 2005
Loc: Prospect, PA
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7872587 - Tue Oct 01 2013 04:55 PM

Still helpful to give us the track and date, and car weight when you get it.

--------------------

500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes
4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter
11.68 @ 120.2 mph


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67Satty
super stock


Reged: Aug 03 2007
Loc: Oceanside, California
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: RobX4406]
      #7872589 - Tue Oct 01 2013 04:56 PM

I think we also need to know what the DA was at the time of the run. If you tell me the track, date, and time, I'll punch it into the website I posted above. 5000 DA? 0 DA? We don't know, makes a big difference.

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feets
Paid by Mercedes to live on Moparts


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Irving, TX
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: 67Satty]
      #7872591 - Tue Oct 01 2013 04:57 PM

Quote:

I think we also need to know what the DA was at the time of the run. If you tell me the track, date, and time, I'll punch it into the website I posted above. 5000 DA? 0 DA? We don't know, makes a big difference.




You mean it'd make a difference if he was running at Pikes Peak?

--------------------
Size matters.



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dfsmopars
mopar addict


Reged: Aug 13 2007
Loc: Kentucky
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: BSB67]
      #7872886 - Tue Oct 01 2013 07:58 PM

Quote:

Still helpful to give us the track and date, and car weight when you get it.



I'll get the weight this week. The run was on 9/28/13 at Mountainpark Dragway in Clay City, KY at about 4:00 PM.
Keep in mind the dist is fully electronic. No weights or manual adjustments. Everything is controlled by pods.


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67Satty
super stock


Reged: Aug 03 2007
Loc: Oceanside, California
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7872901 - Tue Oct 01 2013 08:07 PM

OK, cool. Your DA at 4 pm that day was 1919 feet.

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RobX4406
I Live Here


Reged: Apr 19 2005
Loc: Overpriced Housing Central
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: 67Satty]
      #7873019 - Tue Oct 01 2013 09:13 PM

Quote:

OK, cool. Your DA at 4 pm that day was 1919 feet.




Yep that's some terrible DA.

That car I referenced the DA was in the 6K ft range...

So you have a ready to run distributor or e-curve with the circuit board? What settings are the switches?



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67Satty
super stock


Reged: Aug 03 2007
Loc: Oceanside, California
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: RobX4406]
      #7873104 - Tue Oct 01 2013 10:23 PM

At least with my post getting his DA figured out, he has some data to factor in with the weight of his car (when he gets it).

Then he will have some actual numbers to plug into some online calculators and not just have to listen to a bunch of "my completely different car (except for the small block part) did this ET or my friend's completely different car (except for the small block part) did that ET so your car should do this ET" which is mostly what he's been getting on this thread (unless you want to count the vac. secondary vs DP arguments too). Not real helpful to the OP in my opinion.


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RobX4406
I Live Here


Reged: Apr 19 2005
Loc: Overpriced Housing Central
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: 67Satty]
      #7873127 - Tue Oct 01 2013 11:00 PM

Quote:

At least with my post getting his DA figured out, he has some data to factor in with the weight of his car (when he gets it).

Then he will have some actual numbers to plug into some online calculators and not just have to listen to a bunch of "my completely different car (except for the small block part) did this ET or my friend's completely different car (except for the small block part) did that ET so your car should do this ET" which is mostly what he's been getting on this thread (unless you want to count the vac. secondary vs DP arguments too). Not real helpful to the OP in my opinion.




Plenty of good info in this thread if you sift through it. Like most threads, rarely a definitive answer to any substantive questions.

I was poking at the people saying DA was a factor in how poorly the car was running. I guess that's a non factor now.

Estimates on what this engine should be making are laughable. 300hp, PLEASE!!!

If a comparison to a car that has less engine in it, running 10-12mph faster in 4K worse DA isn't something to think about, then have at it. And please, the extra weight will slow the car about 4-5 mph.

Maybe the alleged smart people in this thread can sort out the issues why this car runs 8-10mph slower than it should. I know where I would start!


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dfsmopars
mopar addict


Reged: Aug 13 2007
Loc: Kentucky
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7873511 - Wed Oct 02 2013 11:14 AM

Just watched a very simple video on the MSD e-curve dist. They have to be set up backwards from normal centrifical dists and I was not doing that. Armed with a little more info on the dist I now need to figure out what the engine is looking with the timing then see about fuel delivery.

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dfsmopars
mopar addict


Reged: Aug 13 2007
Loc: Kentucky
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: Triple Threat]
      #7874112 - Wed Oct 02 2013 07:54 PM

Quote:

The OP needs to weigh that thing before we get into too much detail. Yes MPH seems low, but that car could be pretty heavy which would explain most of that.



The car weighed in at 3950# and at the track with the driver that means 4110#.


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dustergirl340
No drunken internet weirdos allowed.


Reged: Sep 20 2004
Loc: Michigan, USA, Earth
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7874127 - Wed Oct 02 2013 08:04 PM

holy crap...what do they put in those B-bodies? Cement?

--------------------

Whoever said diamonds are a girl's best friend never owned a V8


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Cab_Burge
Too Many Posts


Reged: Aug 23 2003
Loc: Bend,OR USA
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7874296 - Wed Oct 02 2013 10:08 PM

I'm not sure that I have said this or not but if I hadn't your car runs well for what it is

--------------------
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)


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67Satty
super stock


Reged: Aug 03 2007
Loc: Oceanside, California
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: Cab_Burge]
      #7874326 - Wed Oct 02 2013 10:28 PM



..and to all those who doubted my prediction of a '72 Charger's weight...



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BulletBob
master


Reged: Oct 20 2005
Loc: Missouri,USA
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: feets]
      #7874350 - Wed Oct 02 2013 11:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Who has a 750 DP laying around?





Throwing street use out the window?

A DP is the last carb you need on the street. It'll suck fuel like no tomorrow. Every time the pedal moves they shoot fuel on both sides.
You should be able to tune a single pump carb to perform perfectly on that kind of engine. The second pump shooter is best saved for the bracket guys.




Dude! You're so right there!
A well tuned 3310 can work well at what I call "Trying to straddle the fence" & is easier to tune tire spin in & out.
Do some gears & put that car on a manageable diet

You can wiggle weight out out of it here & there


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moper
moparts techie


Reged: Feb 03 2003
Loc: Columbia, CT
Re: Please rate time slip for street car [Re: dfsmopars]
      #7874482 - Thu Oct 03 2013 06:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The OP needs to weigh that thing before we get into too much detail. Yes MPH seems low, but that car could be pretty heavy which would explain most of that.



The car weighed in at 3950# and at the track with the driver that means 4110#.




4100lbs, 94 mph = 315 crank hp give or take one's conversion for crank hp from rear wheel. For that cam, I'd say it's close. Even with good heads and spot on tuning I don't think it would make 1hp/cubic inch with that camshaft.

--------------------
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.


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