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85_Ram_4speed
super street


Reged: Jun 12 2003
Loc: Truckville, the capital of NY
273/318 heads
      #5577724 - Sat Oct 31 2009 05:31 AM

I have a couple sets of 273/318 heads sitting around for whatever reason. Besides the "308" heads, are any other heads worth keeping? I can get the casting numbers later, but they are just common heads i believe.

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Outcast Dodge guy.


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Rug_Trucker
My posts are intoxicating!


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Not2farfromNashville, TN
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: 85_Ram_4speed]
      #5578093 - Sat Oct 31 2009 09:51 AM

There is a 318 truck motor head with no exhaust crossover, no idea of the casting number. 302's, and the 920 273 heads.

--------------------
"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"


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HotRodDave
The Mileage Master


Reged: Jan 29 2005
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: 85_Ram_4speed]
      #5578110 - Sat Oct 31 2009 09:57 AM

Open chamber 318 heads are not even worth their weight in scrap iron. If they are closed chamber heads like the 920 or 302 they can give average 70s and 80s motors a bump in compression and the 302 head is good for MPG motors because of their high swirl charicturistics, even then they are not worth a lot. The older 315 casting 273 heads are small closed chambers also but need early 273 intakes to match the intake bolt pattern. There is at least 1 other early 273 casting but I can't remember the number. Also the 714 is a really late 318 head just like the 302.

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I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!




68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!



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classof65
enthusiast


Reged: Jul 29 2003
Loc: Tennessee
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: Rug_Trucker]
      #5578277 - Sat Oct 31 2009 12:08 PM

If you have a good set of 315's, let me know. They are, at least on a 273 in NHRA legal configuration, the equal of, if not superior to any other legal number including the vaunted 302's (which we are currently working with)

All I submit is this - the dyno is the dyno and the ET slip is the ET slip. 315's are a great choice for the 273. The odd angle of the bolts does cause a bit of a problem, but it is only a matter of some end mill modification to fix a later intake to bolt down properly.

Not trying to start a war or be ugly, but we don't get behind the wheel of a flow bench, it is only one tool and doesn't tell the whole story.

Peace, Rev. Mopar (Class of 65, 32 time IHRA and NHRA national record holder)


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HotRodDave
The Mileage Master


Reged: Jan 29 2005
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: classof65]
      #5578404 - Sat Oct 31 2009 02:01 PM

Not going to start a war with me, I do think the closed chamber 273 heads are the best for 273s, no chamber overlap like a 302 head and I thought they flowed more not less than the 302 They made great power in the 273 4bbl motors. I put a set of 315 on a 318 roller motor and it made plenty of tq for the full size conversion van it was in, I had to mod the intake bolt holes and PR holes but it ran better than the 302 headed motor ran.

I do not have a 315 head right now but I do have some 920s that should be legal and use the normal intake bolt angle and when I had them next to a 315 I couldn't find any significant differances, mabey you could fill us in

--------------------
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!




68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!



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dart4forte
Absolutely incapable of posting in the correct forum


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: Yakganistan, WA
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: classof65]
      #5579127 - Sat Oct 31 2009 10:13 PM

Quote:

If you have a good set of 315's, let me know. They are, at least on a 273 in NHRA legal configuration, the equal of, if not superior to any other legal number including the vaunted 302's (which we are currently working with)

All I submit is this - the dyno is the dyno and the ET slip is the ET slip. 315's are a great choice for the 273. The odd angle of the bolts does cause a bit of a problem, but it is only a matter of some end mill modification to fix a later intake to bolt down properly.

Not trying to start a war or be ugly, but we don't get behind the wheel of a flow bench, it is only one tool and doesn't tell the whole story.

Peace, Rev. Mopar (Class of 65, 32 time IHRA and NHRA national record holder)




Hey Rev, if you need a set of 315's I have a set. I need a set of 920s for a Bonneville motor.


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MoparforLife
moparts member


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Upper Midwest
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: classof65]
      #5579284 - Sun Nov 01 2009 04:48 AM

Quote:

All I submit is this - the dyno is the dyno and the ET slip is the ET slip. 315's are a great choice for the 273. The odd angle of the bolts does cause a bit of a problem, but it is only a matter of some end mill modification to fix a later intake to bolt down properly.

Not trying to start a war or be ugly, but we don't get behind the wheel of a flow bench, it is only one tool and doesn't tell the whole story.


<The truth be told>

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classof65
enthusiast


Reged: Jul 29 2003
Loc: Tennessee
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: classof65]
      #5580089 - Sun Nov 01 2009 01:39 PM

What all posts on here need is a bit of slap stick humor.... NHRA has "spec" heads submitted to them and they do the measuring and ascribe what is "legal" In their WISDOM, they certified as stock a set of 302's that HAD to be SUPER STOCK (a class that allows porting). Someone did a GREAT job of hiding the work done.

Volume, not flow, is the ONLY possible advantage of a 302 head over the old 315's We're "EXPERIMENTING" with various theories regarding head selection as it relates to our class(es) U/SA and T/SA. The 315's, which we KNOW work are on the shelf and ready to go but the 302's are still being developed. Progress on them is S L O W, which usually means we are at the END of the power production for OUR application. That, by the way, are slower than the 315's PERIOD. One more season trying and it will be back to the 315's.

Our only hope next season to increase performance is that NHRA now allows a FIVE angle valve job which MAY be the great equalizer. We will have to wait and see. AND WAIT FOR NHRA'S NEXT ANTI MOPAR RULING.

Letting a 60 Chevy Kingswood Estate 283 4 Bbl run a TH 350 when they were never an availible option and were only a glimmer in the eye of their daddy is just ONE trial we have to endure. Oh well, the new U record is only 14.19 and we can do that in reverse.

Peace, Rev. Mopar


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HotRodDave
The Mileage Master


Reged: Jan 29 2005
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: classof65]
      #5580119 - Sun Nov 01 2009 01:58 PM

Have you ever used/tested/looked at the 920 head? Are they legal? I assmue you know what they are but for the other guys that don't, they are the 67 only 273-318 head.

--------------------
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!




68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!



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RapidRobert
circle track


Reged: Nov 20 2003
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: HotRodDave]
      #5580130 - Sun Nov 01 2009 02:06 PM

Reverend, slightly off topic. I have an 80's 318. would one of these earlier closed chamber heads benefit my low rpm mileage effort. I would not want to redrill my intake but one of the other ones?

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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Edited by RapidRobert (Sun Nov 01 2009 02:07 PM)


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HotRodDave
The Mileage Master


Reged: Jan 29 2005
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: RapidRobert]
      #5581182 - Sun Nov 01 2009 09:27 PM

I am not the reverend but I would think the 302 would give the best MPG because it swirls the fuel more, on the other hand the 920 has a smaller chamber and more quench area

--------------------
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!




68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!



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dart4forte
Absolutely incapable of posting in the correct forum


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: Yakganistan, WA
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: HotRodDave]
      #5581205 - Sun Nov 01 2009 09:39 PM

We took the 920s on my 273 and worked them over. Did pretty much the same with a 302. The 302 flow and velocity went down so we did something it didn't like. I stopped on my 920s when I got 169 cfm average, with 116% port velocity just by smoothing things out especially around the base of the guides and a decent valve job. I also installed stainless valves 1.84/1.58

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dodgeboy11
super stock


Reged: Jan 31 2007
Loc: Lund, NV
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: RapidRobert]
      #5581323 - Sun Nov 01 2009 11:41 PM

Quote:

Reverend, slightly off topic. I have an 80's 318. would one of these earlier closed chamber heads benefit my low rpm mileage effort. I would not want to redrill my intake but one of the other ones?




I'd use magnum heads for a mileage setup. Interesting thing with my 360, I have inverse domed KB hyper pistons sticking .004-.005" out of the deck with mopar magnum R/T heads. On the dyno I started with 36 degrees timing and it made 382 hp. Taking the timing down to 32 and it was up to 388. Tight quench with the magnum chamber is apparently very efficient. Car was getting 14 mpg with 3.91 gears and not what I'd call a light foot. 3100 lb challenger. 294 hp to the wheels. 904 transmission. Only difference from the chassis dyno to the engine was crap kinked 2.5 inch exhaust and E body chassis headers to circlie jerk headers through the dyno's 4" pipes.
Anyway, know it's off topic, but it might help some people...

--------------------
Head porter, engine builder, mechanic and all that goes with it...


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classof65
enthusiast


Reged: Jul 29 2003
Loc: Tennessee
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: dodgeboy11]
      #5582524 - Mon Nov 02 2009 04:36 PM

Yes, I think the 273 heads, the 315's in particular because I know more about them, would benefit your effort.

Now I will instigate as I'm sure my humble opinion will be TROUNCED upon immediately.

Magnum heads are all well and good but have things that may make their use less than advantageous. First - find a set that isn't cracked.... That may take a good long time, not to mention money. Then you have to swap cams. Then you have to - oh well, you know the litany. One of the reasons Magnums perform as they do is the 1.6 rocker ratio. Do the ratio thing to older heads and alot of the benefits of the Magnum disappear. Oh yeah - the intake manifold thingie....

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the Magnum - they represent a great era, but they are one choice among many and if you are on a budget - I would stick with EASY and readily availible.

I've not done anything with the 920 heads, but have with the 315's and 302's. By the way, the heart shaped combustion chamber in the 315's is as, if not more, effective in producing swirl. The maintain good velocity throughout the RPM band, accept porting without areas of stall, unless you go nuts. All in all a good head.

Seems like EVERY post assumes that the poster wants to spend a ton of money. OR that Magnum stuff is the answer to every topic small block. Let's help one another through our projects by maximizing what we HAVE (money is too hard to come by).

I am just completing an experiment. I have built a .030 318 with 315 heads (kinda cheated up but nothing that would raise the eyebrow of an NHRA tech) a 65 formula S intake, a 670 Avenger carb, one of our trusty record cams (.411 and .399), solid lifters, banana shafts, yada yada yada. I've corrected the ratio like we do on the wagon. It will have a 4600 stall converter, a good 904, and a 4.56 sure grip. All this in a cute little 75 Dart (oh yeah, it's lightened but still looks like new). Wanna guess what the E.T. will be. Probably shock alot of you. Point is, I had this stuff laying around. Don't think for a minute I wouldn't have used "better" stuff if I'd had it but bucks are slim. Suffice it to say this little car will probably run quicker than most think it should and it was a blast to build. How about 2600 in the entire project which includes a to the metal and back up paint job.

Enough of this. You guys are very sharp and I love reading about your antics.

Peace, Rev. Mopar


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pacifica
mopar


Reged: Dec 28 2006
Loc: N.E.Ohio
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: classof65]
      #5583390 - Tue Nov 03 2009 01:10 AM

" Wanna guess what the E.T. will be. "

13.68 my guess


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classof65
enthusiast


Reged: Jul 29 2003
Loc: Tennessee
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: pacifica]
      #5586600 - Wed Nov 04 2009 03:56 PM

Pacifica

That is probably a pretty good guess. I am expecting the ET's to be in the 13.40 to 13.70 range but am willing to be surprised if they are quicker. If they are slower, well, if it is consistent, we will just run it as is and concentrate on the Class of 65, which, by the way, runs in the 13.6's (273 2bbl) in U/SA trim. Of course it has the advantage of being a pretty "cutting edge" type build.

Peace, Rev. Mopar


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Rug_Trucker
My posts are intoxicating!


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Not2farfromNashville, TN
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: classof65]
      #5586711 - Wed Nov 04 2009 04:51 PM

Quote:

(273 2bbl) in U/SA trim. Of course it has the advantage of being a pretty "cutting edge" type build.

Peace, Rev. Mopar




Still running the Stromberg?

--------------------
"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"


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classof65
enthusiast


Reged: Jul 29 2003
Loc: Tennessee
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: classof65]
      #5590259 - Fri Nov 06 2009 04:10 PM

Yes sir.. Still running the faithful Stronberg. I'd love to slip a four barrel on it just for kicks - or even a 500 Holley.... Keep the hood shut and let em wonder.

Peace, Rev.


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Rug_Trucker
My posts are intoxicating!


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Not2farfromNashville, TN
Re: 273/318 heads [Re: classof65]
      #5590469 - Fri Nov 06 2009 05:42 PM

How to hotrod Strombergs is another thread. The BBD's are neat. I play with them.

--------------------
"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"


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