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VITC_GTX
super gas


Reged: Mar 22 2003
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington
Compression ratio for 1966 440. Stock heads vs 452s?
      #5133257 - Tue Mar 31 2009 08:56 PM

Friend has a '66 New Yorker with stock 440. Years ago one of the heads cracked (over heated) so he replaced both with a rebuilt set of 452s. After that he believes he lost quite of bit of power (seat of the pants measurement). This is the non-HP 440 from '66. First of all what heads did it come with from the factory? What cc are those heads? How far down in the hole would stock non-HP 440 pistons be in the block? Trying to guesstimate compression.

He believes that the difference between open vs closed chambered heads are the reason for his power loss. What do you think?

--------------------
Van

"Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups"

1970 Vit-C GTX
1971 Demon - 12.76 @ 104.50
1969 Coronet 500
1971 Sebring Plus
1969 Barracuda Notchback - 12.41 @ 109.05
1970 Sport Satellite


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MisterFiberglass



Reged: Jul 04 2008
Loc: WINNING - in PaRaDiSe ....Bra...
Re: Compression ratio for 1966 440. Stock heads vs 452s? [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #5133279 - Tue Mar 31 2009 09:01 PM

That cyl head change .... would lose a TON of compression !

Head cc's ? .. some 452's can be high 80's/low 90's .... the early heads ... low to mid 70's.

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no, No, NO - not a vaca with the nUtTy FrUiTcAkE oleHAM - - he is so nutty if he ate a can of Planters cashews - he could be charged with CANNIBALISM ....


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dave571
master


Reged: Dec 02 2003
Loc: Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
Re: Compression ratio for 1966 440. Stock heads vs 452s? [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #5133405 - Tue Mar 31 2009 09:42 PM

Not sure how far in the hole the slugs were on a 66, But....

I had a non molested hp 67 440. The pistons were .065 in the hole IIRC. Then the .020 gasket and some 516's that cc'd around 79.

Comp calculator gives that just over 10:1

Switch to 452's and a felpro gasket, and you're down to just under 9:1.

So a full point of compression, but you did gain a bigger exhaust valve and bigger runners in the heads. So there is a debate unto itself there.

Realistically, the gains in a closed head are only seen when quench is present. With pistons that far in the hole, you have no quench.

A full point of compression should only cost you 3 to 4 % but I think there are some other variables here.

Some say that a closed head develops some swirl on the intake charge, that improves atomisaton.

So it could be that with the open heads, it became slugish down low due to poor atomisation of the fuel charge. Add on the slight overall power loss because of the comp loss, and it may be noticable in the pants dyno.

--------------------
www.davesmopar.com

11.85 @ 114,3890 pnds, all iron, hyd cam, 750 carb, 440, 3.73 gear
Im a musician too www.davesmopar.com/davesmusic.htm


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GTX MATT
Waiting...Still Waiting..


Reged: Jun 05 2006
Loc: CT
Re: Compression ratio for 1966 440. Stock heads vs 452s? [Re: dave571]
      #5133580 - Tue Mar 31 2009 11:48 PM

Maybe the 452s had a crappy valve job...

--------------------
Plymouth is out to win you over this year!


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1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee


Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
Re: Compression ratio for 1966 440. Stock heads vs 452s? [Re: GTX MATT]
      #5133587 - Tue Mar 31 2009 11:57 PM

FWIW I've seen the dyno numbers & I know they say one point of compression is only 4% but that is at max output, seat of the pants that one point of compression has always felt stronger from off idle to max power...

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Fury Fan
Located via SONAR


Reged: Dec 07 2006
Loc: Indiana
Re: Compression ratio for 1966 440. Stock heads vs 452s? [Re: 1_WILD_RT]
      #5133711 - Wed Apr 01 2009 05:38 AM

Also, the valves in the 452s are bigger, and the ports are bigger/higher flowing than what's in the -516 heads that were original to the '66. Adds up to lower port velocity, which probably reduces turbulence and makes for a less ideal burn.

I'd say that, coupled with the compression loss, is the reason. Assuming the -452 heads were in good condition, of course...

--------------------
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driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
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Mr.Yuck
Not delicious


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Re: Compression ratio for 1966 440. Stock heads vs 452s? [Re: Fury Fan]
      #5133753 - Wed Apr 01 2009 06:23 AM

Quote:

Also, the valves in the 452s are bigger, and the ports are bigger/higher flowing than what's in the -516 heads that were original to the '66. Adds up to lower port velocity, which probably reduces turbulence and makes for a less ideal burn.

I'd say that, coupled with the compression loss, is the reason. Assuming the -452 heads were in good condition, of course...




yes but do you need all that flow when you are only spinning it up to 4800? The heads would help more top-end. He has lost all his low-end grunt.


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