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gtx6970
I Live Here


Reged: Jun 28 2003
Loc: Land of Booze and Horses
318 small block build recomendations
      #4831554 - Sat Nov 22 2008 11:47 AM

Short version of the story is I have a local customer wanting to upgrade the engine compartment of his 1971 Challenger convertible.
It s a 318 now and he's not opposed to upgrading to a big block ( prefer not to ) BUT, if it stays small block then the OE trans and various other brackets, hardware, etc can be re-used.
So my thoughts are upgrade the top half and valve train to something to flow a bit better , convert to a 4 barrel, better heads, better /dual exhaust.

Only real requirement is to remain/keep somthing of a stock outward appearence. So aftermkt heads and headers are already out of the question. The overall idea is to build something of a 'what if' kind of restoration. It's a 71 challenger convertible with Air and keeping the A/C would be a bonus but not a detrement if it goes away.

He had talked about installing a hemi, But I think this would be more for eye candy than anything else. Plus added costs to do a correct conversion may be to much. I personally would prefer to stay small block and build the insides to make a nice driver and KEEP the air.

Ideas much appreciated.

--------------------
http://www.facebook.com/pages/AM-High-Tech-Automotive/408528952539495


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Neil
Taternator


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Eagle, Idaho
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: gtx6970]
      #4831596 - Sat Nov 22 2008 12:26 PM

Magnum heads

Raise the compression ratio

Roller cam - not a necessity, but if the money is available...

4" crank - would really run nice, but I wouldn't bother making the engine larger with 318 exhaust manifolds.

Start with a 318 magnum core engine to begin with????

--------------------


Edited by Neil (Sat Nov 22 2008 12:27 PM)


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68Bullit
mopar


Reged: Mar 30 2008
Loc: Western NC
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: gtx6970]
      #4831669 - Sat Nov 22 2008 12:57 PM

If He isn't opposed to going big block but would rather keep the obvious brackets, etc, then go with a 360 and paint it 318 red or whatever color it's supposed to be. Still would need headers though. With a 318 or 360, gotta have the headers

Edited by 68Bullit (Sat Nov 22 2008 01:03 PM)


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Anonymous
Unregistered



Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: 68Bullit]
      #4831671 - Sat Nov 22 2008 12:58 PM

Quote:

If He isn't opposed to going big block but would rather keep the obvious brackets, etc, then go with a 360 painted 318 red or whatever color it's supposed to be. Still would need headers though. With a 318 or 360, gotta have the headers




This. Truth is, you'll pretty much always get more power for the money if you just build a 360 and drop it in.


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tpabayflyer
super gas


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Tampa, FL go bucs/rays!!
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: ]
      #4832257 - Sat Nov 22 2008 05:50 PM

rebuild the 318 on the cheap with a cast 4" crank... 390 cubes and mild upgrades will yield minimum 400HP easily and all the accessories,trans,etc will work..... Why everybody is so against that I can't understand... My 390 1983 Cordoba 3.73 gear is quite a bit faster than my old 'Cuda 360 with 3.91 gear.a 360 is nice but a 390 is better! TBF

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Anonymous
Unregistered



Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer]
      #4832962 - Sun Nov 23 2008 12:54 AM

Don't know your budget, but my version of cheap is $1000 or less, so if you go with a 4" crank, pistons would be required, and a basic stroker kit would run you $1500+. Then cost of machine work if needed for an overbore. You could find a 360 from a wrecking yard for $350 or cheaper, freshen it up with rings, bearings, gaskets, to bring you to $500. You would also need a 360 torque converter because the balance is different, so $50-$350 depending on what you want, stock from wrecking yard or basic aftermarket.

If you wanted to stay with the 318, 1992-newer magnum heads can gain you 50hp just by bolting them on, but require a different intake, shorter pushrods, newer style lifters (great time for a mild cam kit, 260-280 degree range, about .470 lift) and 10 bolt valvecovers (which wont look stock.) The magnum valvetrain has an increased rocker ratio of 1.6:1, which turns a .474" lift cam into .506, which is about the max the stock magnum springs can handle anyway. These heads are a closed chamber design, which would raise a stock compression ratio of about 8.2 to 8.8, or somewhere close to that.

Have Fun!!
JJ


Edit: 1971 318s had higher compression to start with, 9.0 I think, so the end result may be 9.5-9.7, and the higher compression pistons may be close to hitting the valves in the .510" neighborhood, don't know for sure. And don't bother putting 360 heads on the 318. They do flow better, but have bigger combustion chambers, which will lower the compression ratio, nearly cancelling out any improvements from increased flow.


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Moparmal
master


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Melbourne.....Oz-land
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer]
      #4832976 - Sun Nov 23 2008 01:28 AM

Quote:

rebuild the 318 on the cheap with a cast 4" crank... 390 cubes and mild upgrades will yield minimum 400HP easily and all the accessories,trans,etc will work..... Why everybody is so against that I can't understand... My 390 1983 Cordoba 3.73 gear is quite a bit faster than my old 'Cuda 360 with 3.91 gear.a 360 is nice but a 390 is better! TBF




Tpa - Fantastic to hear someon who's gone down the 318/390 path.

Did you find your gas mileage changed much from the 360 to the 390?

--------------------
1971 Aussie Charger

Now with. - SRT 6.1 HEMI, 218 @ .50
3650lbs , Dual quads!! - 11.9 @ 114




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Supercuda
I also have a small weasel!!


Reged: Sep 04 2007
Loc: West Texas
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Moparmal]
      #4833132 - Sun Nov 23 2008 07:37 AM

Basic 318 upgrade.

better cam, small 4bbl carb, good exhaust.

Anything more is ridiculous on a 318.

You want more cubes, don't fool with stroking a 318, you are just turd polishing. Might as well stroke a 360, about the same cost, more cubes, better bore sizing, better choice all around and a virtual bolt in for a 318, a couple of minor issues to deal with.


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terzmo
Ribbit


Reged: Mar 12 2005
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda]
      #4833134 - Sun Nov 23 2008 07:39 AM

stroke that 318 and embarrass alot of people...I'd stay with a 340 rather than a 360 if changing blocks....better block for the year

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RapidRobert
circle track


Reged: Nov 20 2003
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: gtx6970]
      #4833161 - Sun Nov 23 2008 07:56 AM

I'm assuming that it's a running/driving car right now. I would build a 360(same size/all brackets fit) w magnum heads(looks stock) proper piston/head gasket selection to get .035-.040 quench with a CR in the 10's(gives you max efficiency/power) & 68-70 340 HP ex manifolds(you said no headers). mag neads have 318 sized ports so bear that in mind as you select an intake manifold(sb street dominators work well 60-75$). When it's ready to go drop it in & there's less down time & the customer is out the door(& happy) quicker.

--------------------
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth


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HotRodDave
The Mileage Master


Reged: Jan 29 2005
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: RapidRobert]
      #4833331 - Sun Nov 23 2008 09:17 AM

360 motor mount brackets are different, they can be made to work but are not drop in.

Magnum heads do NOT have 318 ports, they are pretty close to 360 size but way better. You can use old LA valve covers, not perfect fit but you can get them to seal and all 5 LA bolt holes line up. Most aplications I have fooled with putting magnum heads on you have to fool with the altenator to get it to fit mag heads because the heads are slightly longer and the back of the altenator can hit the head. Thease differances asside I highly recomend magnum heads.

The street dominator has great fuel distribution but that is where the performance ends for it, it has very low flow witch should make good tq but the runners are very short and the plenum is big so it is really mis matched within it self.

--------------------
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!




68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!



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tpabayflyer
super gas


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Tampa, FL go bucs/rays!!
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda]
      #4833616 - Sun Nov 23 2008 11:15 AM Attachment (104 downloads)

Quote:

Basic 318 upgrade.

better cam, small 4bbl carb, good exhaust.

Anything more is ridiculous on a 318.

You want more cubes, don't fool with stroking a 318, you are just turd polishing. Might as well stroke a 360, about the same cost, more cubes, better bore sizing, better choice all around and a virtual bolt in for a 318, a couple of minor issues to deal with.




Well... turdly 318's are avialable usually for free..... a 360 block gives you 408 cubes which is 18 more than the 318 stroked to 390. For any given combo assuming you make 1 hp per cube or a little more you are looking at about 20-25HP less. Does that make it a turd? Is a chevy 383 stroker a turd??? SBC 350's stroked to 383 are probably about the most common stroker combo on the planet and Chevy guys love them. Yet the Mopar crowd seems to turn up their nose at a 390? I just don't get it.

A 390 can be built very cheap. 4" cranks can be had for $325.00 Cheap Eagle SIR rods for $250.00 KB forged pistons for $395.00...... So the reciprocating assembly can be had for less than $1,000 and a 318 stroker with the Eagle rods will not need to have the expense of having the block clearanced. All this can be internally balanced by drilling the counterweights with no expensive mallory metal like the 360 based combo's.

Yes the 3.940 bore is somewhat smaller but there is no problems running even a 2.02 intake valve at all. My 390 uses EQ magnum style iron heads with 2.02 intake valves and it pulls like a big block. TBF

--------------------
71 Challenger 528 Hemi project
09 Gr Cherokee 5.7 hemi in da house!!


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GoodysGotaCuda
GoodysGotaNewTitle


Reged: Nov 23 2004
Loc: Denton, TX
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer]
      #4833619 - Sun Nov 23 2008 11:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Basic 318 upgrade.

better cam, small 4bbl carb, good exhaust.

Anything more is ridiculous on a 318.

You want more cubes, don't fool with stroking a 318, you are just turd polishing. Might as well stroke a 360, about the same cost, more cubes, better bore sizing, better choice all around and a virtual bolt in for a 318, a couple of minor issues to deal with.




Well... turdly 318's are avialable usually for free..... a 360 block gives you 408 cubes which is 18 more than the 318 stroked to 390. For any given combo assuming you make 1 hp per cube or a little more you are looking at about 20-25HP less. Does that make it a turd? Is a chevy 383 stroker a turd??? SBC 350's stroked to 383 are probably about the most common stroker combo on the planet and Chevy guys love them. Yet the Mopar crowd seems to turn up their nose at a 390? I just don't get it.





I agree, not many people complain about the Ford 289, and definitely not the infamous 302. Mopar guys tend to trash the 318 pretty quick.

--------------------

1972 Barracuda
2009 Wrangler


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HotRodDave
The Mileage Master


Reged: Jan 29 2005
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
      #4833656 - Sun Nov 23 2008 11:44 AM

Popular hot rodding has a 477 hp 318 in it that looks like it would be sweet motor. Peak HP was at 6500 (may have made more past that but thats as high as the test went). It made 427 lbs tq to boot and it used iron heads

I have been gathering parts for a stroked 340 for my 68 cuda but I have a real nice 318 short block in there now with SCAT I beam rods and KB167 flat tops to make it nice and light, I am thinking about porting some RHS Iron magnum heads I have and throwing them on and running it that way. Mine would probably be a touch less hp because I have a little smaller cam but I have the parts so I might just do it.

PHR says the build is on there site but I can't find it

--------------------
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!




68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD

1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!



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Supercuda
I also have a small weasel!!


Reged: Sep 04 2007
Loc: West Texas
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer]
      #4833742 - Sun Nov 23 2008 12:37 PM

Quote:


Well... turdly 318's are avialable usually for free.....




it's only saving grace

Quote:

a 360 block gives you 408 cubes which is 18 more than the 318 stroked to 390. For any given combo assuming you make 1 hp per cube or a little more you are looking at about 20-25HP less. Does that make it a turd?






yes, your assumptions are off the mark.

Quote:



Is a chevy 383 stroker a turd??? SBC 350's stroked to 383 are probably about the most common stroker combo on the planet and Chevy guys love them.





ah, let's bring the most polished turd on the planet into the conversation. The only reason the Chevy 383 is so "loved" is because the even bigger SBC, the 400, is a larger turd than the 350. YOu'll note the only way the SBC 383 makes any decent power is if you dump most of the OEM parts for aftermarket.

Quote:


Yet the Mopar crowd seems to turn up their nose at a 390? I just don't get it.




probably because ANYTHING you do to a 318 will, I repeat will, show more of an improvement on a 360, including stroking it.

Quote:



A 390 can be built very cheap. 4" cranks can be had for $325.00 Cheap Eagle SIR rods for $250.00 KB forged pistons for $395.00...... So the reciprocating assembly can be had for less than $1,000 and a 318 stroker with the Eagle rods will not need to have the expense of having the block clearanced. All this can be internally balanced by drilling the counterweights with no expensive mallory metal like the 360 based combo's.




Which will make zero power with 318 heads. Polish away. Cheap crank, cheap rods, hmm, you get what you pay for I guess. BTW, same rods can be used in a 360. BTW, stock 360 pistons weigh less then stock 318 pistons, so why does the 360 need to be externally balanced? The STROKE. If thwe 4" 318 crank has enough weight in the counterweights to allow for internal balance then the 360 4" crank should too. Unless your buying a cheap crank, oh wait.

Quote:



Yes the 3.940 bore is somewhat smaller but there is no problems running even a 2.02 intake valve at all. My 390 uses EQ magnum style iron heads with 2.02 intake valves and it pulls like a big block. TBF




Ever hear of valve shrouding? 2.02 might fit the bore, but the valves are substantially more shrouded in the 318 bore. As for pulling like a big block, ah no. It pulls like a stroked small block. Put it up against a 440, or a 413, or a 426W and you'll see what a big block pulls like.

Point is you can spend money anyway you want but my OPINION is that your wasting it on a 318 unless that is your only option.


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Supercuda
I also have a small weasel!!


Reged: Sep 04 2007
Loc: West Texas
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
      #4833747 - Sun Nov 23 2008 12:39 PM

Quote:



I agree, not many people complain about the Ford 289, and definitely not the infamous 302. Mopar guys tend to trash the 318 pretty quick.




Why would that be Goody?

Tell us what engineering difference there is between the 302 and the 318 that makes the 302 a better performance engine?

Do you even know?


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70dart360
Green Meister


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Hampton, Ga.
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda]
      #4833776 - Sun Nov 23 2008 12:57 PM

Get a 360 and build it. For what you'd spend to get 400 hp out of a 318, you could build dang near 2 360's with 400 hp. Built a 390 for a buddies dart and had my little 360 in mine. Same gears and everything and I could walk away from him easy in high gear even if he dropped back to 2nd. Dont even wanna know what happened from a dead stop. As far as the 289's and 302's well they came with some compression and would scream with mild mods, a 318 aint gonna happen like that with out decking the block or changing the pistons to get some compression. 383 Chevys are popular cause they were one of the first strokers and used common GM parts. SB 400's are worthless???? Ha, got a 406 in a 69 Nova sitting here in the driveway, all GM except the pistons. Wanna come show me how worthless the 400's are? Them wheels on the wheelie bars aint skinned up for nothing.

--------------------
70 Dart Swinger
72 D-100 440 shortbed
76 Pinto, 68k 21mpg!


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70AARcuda
master


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: las vegas
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: 70dart360]
      #4833813 - Sun Nov 23 2008 01:23 PM



Ok all you 318 mopeds…you need to park your car and stop wasting fossil fuels and most of all bandwidth..

You should not post questions concerning rebuilding a worthless engine, even though it may be the only thing you have at the time because unlike other people, you might have a wife …kids…mortgage and sometimes like to eat…

You are not allowed to post any further questions concerning your under powered 318, you should use all your resources that you don’t have cause of items listed above and get that 340/360 engine that you dream about every moment of the day and night

Until you have a mighty arsenal of 6 340 blocks…7 360 blocks…6 set of W2 heads…2 set of W5 heads and several set of eddy heads your questions about increasing the performance of a 318 is a waste…

And I always thought hot rodding was about doing what you want to do with what ever you have to do it with….also…being a mopar person is being different….so fire up those 318 and run up the rear end of those you say you cant do it….

Ok…I am done ranting….


--------------------
Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.335 @ 128.22(10-05-13 Bakersfield on E85)
71 Demon 360 10.720 @120.66 (9-08- 2012 @ Sacramento)
71 Duster 360 (11.050@ 119.12 5/17/14 vegas)
69 Barracuda FB 360 (10.697@123.40MATS 2011 Retired for awhile)


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Neil
Taternator


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Eagle, Idaho
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda]
      #4833814 - Sun Nov 23 2008 01:25 PM

Quote:

As for pulling like a big block, ah no. It pulls like a stroked small block. Put it up against a 440, or a 413, or a 426W and you'll see what a big block pulls like.






I hope you talking about a modified big block. I don't think a stock B,RB, or Hemi can even run with a reasonably built 4" crank smallblock.

--------------------


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70dart360
Green Meister


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Hampton, Ga.
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: 70AARcuda]
      #4833818 - Sun Nov 23 2008 01:29 PM

70AAR, all I was saying is that a 360 would be as cheap to do with more power, cause he mentioned keeping the original accesories and stuff. If he's not against installing a big block then the 360 would be the best option and keep the factory "looking" small block under the hood.

--------------------
70 Dart Swinger
72 D-100 440 shortbed
76 Pinto, 68k 21mpg!


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70AARcuda
master


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: las vegas
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: 70dart360]
      #4833835 - Sun Nov 23 2008 01:36 PM

the question of the original post is???

318 small block build recommendation....

not replacing your 318 with a 360...

he is asking for suggestions on making his 318 run better...

yes 360s will out 318s ...but it is not what he is asking...

--------------------
Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.335 @ 128.22(10-05-13 Bakersfield on E85)
71 Demon 360 10.720 @120.66 (9-08- 2012 @ Sacramento)
71 Duster 360 (11.050@ 119.12 5/17/14 vegas)
69 Barracuda FB 360 (10.697@123.40MATS 2011 Retired for awhile)

Edited by 70AARcuda (Sun Nov 23 2008 01:38 PM)


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Supercuda
I also have a small weasel!!


Reged: Sep 04 2007
Loc: West Texas
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Neil]
      #4833896 - Sun Nov 23 2008 02:14 PM

Quote:


I hope you talking about a modified big block. I don't think a stock B,RB, or Hemi can even run with a reasonably built 4" crank smallblock.




We need a Ricky Recardo smiley cause that's simply ridiculous, lol.


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Neil
Taternator


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Eagle, Idaho
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda]
      #4833944 - Sun Nov 23 2008 02:42 PM

A conservative 408 or 416 smallblock will turn low twelves or high elevens at around 110 mph. I have never seen one go slower than that. On the other hand I have seen plenty of stock and even mildly built 440's that are stuck in the 14's at 95 mph. I won't even bring up the 15 second 4-speed 1970 superbird I saw.

--------------------


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Supercuda
I also have a small weasel!!


Reged: Sep 04 2007
Loc: West Texas
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Neil]
      #4833994 - Sun Nov 23 2008 03:17 PM

we were talking about a stroked 318.

As for the 440's you saw, well who can say what hamfisted goonery hapened over the years.


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tpabayflyer
super gas


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Tampa, FL go bucs/rays!!
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda]
      #4834279 - Sun Nov 23 2008 05:18 PM Attachment (73 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:


I hope you talking about a modified big block. I don't think a stock B,RB, or Hemi can even run with a reasonably built 4" crank smallblock.




We need a Ricky Recardo smiley cause that's simply ridiculous, lol.




Lets keep this simple.. a stock 440 4bbl makes about 375 hp??? My lil ole 390 stroker makes around 450hp... this is at the crank. Stock 440 uses exhaust manifolds, stock intake etc.. I think my 83 cordoba 390 would wail on just about any stock 440 thrown my way. Granted, I have nice headers, ported heads, cam etc, but when I said it pulls like a big block that is what I am comparing it to.

Steve Dulcich made 425 HP with a stock stroke 318 using the same EQ magnum heads I used. They ported theirs to flow 270Intake at .500 lift and 219 at .500 on the exhaust side.

Here is what he had to say about bore shrouding....

""A 318's bore is too small!" Tell it to the even smaller-bore LS1 guys. "The 318 was never a high-performance engine." Maybe true, but we'll show you how to make it one!"

What is the stock bore of an LS1? 3.900?????

Check out the article at:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0810phr_chrysler_318_engine/index.html

Is the 318 a performance engine? No... can it be built into a performance engine? Of course. Is a 340 or 360 a better foundation for a performance build? Sure it is, but if all you have is a 318 that is still a great perfomance engine waiting to be built. I have a late model magnum 5.2 in my Grand Cherokee that will be getting the full 390 treatment soon. Could I have got a used 5.9 block to build? Yes, but why spend the money for an extra 20-25 HP when I have the 5.2 block already. Not worth it to me.

Here is a peek of what a 71 Olds cutlass 455 got to see when I was at the strip and still could not make a clean pass..... 13.75 @102 without hitting 3rd gear. TBF

--------------------
71 Challenger 528 Hemi project
09 Gr Cherokee 5.7 hemi in da house!!


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mark7171
pro stock


Reged: Apr 08 2007
Loc: ILL
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer]
      #4834325 - Sun Nov 23 2008 05:33 PM

I think the stock performance 318 heads with 1.88/1.60 valves and 125 cc runners is what their thinking of. Add a 2.76 gear and your flying!

my 323" 4dr 4spd pulls the same as the first 4 gears of a 90's 5spd 5.0L mustang.

My 323's pistons were .060+/- down in the hole. The Aerohead performance 130cc 318 port 1.88/1.60 heads had 72 cc chambers, and could be angle milled (with an optional reset of the piston valve reliefs) , to the low 60's. You could make 8.8-9:1 compression easily with a 318 stock bottom. Most people are going to rebuild the heads anyways. I say why not?

I have a bigblock convertible 4spd cuda, and would recomend a good old mild modern 440. they can do what ever you want, and last forever inexpensively.



Edited by mark7171 (Sun Nov 23 2008 05:40 PM)


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Moparmal
master


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Melbourne.....Oz-land
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer]
      #4835255 - Mon Nov 24 2008 04:55 AM

Well said tpabayflyer.

My 318/349 runs a close to flat 13 in a 3600 lb car on road tyres with 3.9 gears , STOCK 360 heads, 10:1 comp and a [Email]231@.050[/Email] - .495 cam -

Thats just about identical to my buddies 360 with the same cam, and same weight car.

So with the 318 block already decked, align honed and magged - why would I start again with a 360?

It'll be a 4" arm for me next, an XS282S and heads ported to 250cfm - and Im chasing a flat 12........not bad for a "shrouded bore" boat anchor.

Bottom line - if you've got the $$ sunk into a prepped 318 - the 4" arm makes sense -

If its a 'start from scratch scenario - the cost of the 360 heads for the 390 balances out the extra cost of buyng a whole 360 long.

--------------------
1971 Aussie Charger

Now with. - SRT 6.1 HEMI, 218 @ .50
3650lbs , Dual quads!! - 11.9 @ 114




Edited by Moparmal (Mon Nov 24 2008 05:07 AM)


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MNobody
When Doves Cry


Reged: Feb 27 2005
Loc: Michigan
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: 70AARcuda]
      #4835337 - Mon Nov 24 2008 06:40 AM

Quote:



Ok all you 318 mopeds…you need to park your car and stop wasting fossil fuels and most of all bandwidth..

You should not post questions concerning rebuilding a worthless engine, even though it may be the only thing you have at the time because unlike other people, you might have a wife …kids…mortgage and sometimes like to eat…

You are not allowed to post any further questions concerning your under powered 318, you should use all your resources that you don’t have cause of items listed above and get that 340/360 engine that you dream about every moment of the day and night

Until you have a mighty arsenal of 6 340 blocks…7 360 blocks…6 set of W2 heads…2 set of W5 heads and several set of eddy heads your questions about increasing the performance of a 318 is a waste…

And I always thought hot rodding was about doing what you want to do with what ever you have to do it with….also…being a mopar person is being different….so fire up those 318 and run up the rear end of those you say you cant do it….

Ok…I am done ranting….





No doubt, my 318 is pushing close to 400 hp and run's right up to 7000 rpm everytime.

--------------------


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AdamR
moparts member


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Bethel Ct
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: MNobody]
      #4835418 - Mon Nov 24 2008 07:44 AM

winter time all ready ?

The question was what can I do to hop up a 318. The car is a convertible so it probably a a nice cruiser not a street strip car. a 4" stroker crank isnt need to make a great cruiser with a little pep.

I would add a set of EQ Magnum heads with the LA intake bolts. Then you can use a stock iron TQ intake and keep that factory look. Look for a 72 340 T.Q.

For a cam I would use something like the XE256 or XE262 from Comp cams. For rockers you can either use stock pieces or small block chevy arms work too,

To use stock exhaust manifolds with the magnum heads you may need to fab up some adapters or maybe use a set of header flanges to fix the port mis match.


The other way to go is find a set of 302 casting heads and have a good valve job done and maybe a little port clean up.

add some 355 gears and go. It wont be blistering fast but it will be a big step up from the stock 2bbl 318 and all of your brackets and A/C stuff will bolt right up.

Edited by AdamR (Mon Nov 24 2008 07:46 AM)


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rockerbob
mopar


Reged: Mar 01 2009
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer]
      #5092265 - Sat Mar 14 2009 08:38 AM Attachment (66 downloads)

I'm a believer in the 390 stroker. I love the 360's too, but its just so neat to kick butt in a 318.

--------------------
2005 Dakota 4X4 3.7
2004 Rumble Bee 5.7
1978 Diplomat 318
1969 Satellite 318 "bracket racer"
1966 Barracuda (in progress )
1964 Dodge 330 (future race project)
1962 Belvedere (HUM????)


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318 Stroker
You Got It


Reged: Oct 02 2007
Loc: St. Louis, Mo
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: rockerbob]
      #5092423 - Sat Mar 14 2009 10:16 AM

I have a 318 stroker in my 73 Challenger...(Hence, my screen name). I bought the car when it was 6 mos. old, so we go back a long way... I decided to hop up the #'s matching motor (yeah, I know...big deal...a #'s 318 car, but it was a big deal to me)...

It's bored .060, 4" crank, Eddy heads, factory 340 hi-po manifolds. It's now 396 cubes, approx. 400 HP & torgue, 3.55 sure-grip. I've had a few Mopar buddys drive it, and they say it runs on a par with a stock big block.

I love my 318 "polished turd". Puts a smile on my face every time I get on it...


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Anonymous
Unregistered



Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: 70AARcuda]
      #5619488 - Sat Nov 21 2009 07:49 PM

dude stop talking smack on the 318. Do you know why some people build 318s because they dont want what every one else has. every one wants a 340 our 360 to build but if you build a 318 you dont have what every one else has and you stand out.

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scratchnfotraction
gotta want it


Reged: May 29 2003
Loc: Florida
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: ]
      #5619537 - Sat Nov 21 2009 08:13 PM



try one of the 390 strokers with a nice roller cam block

"polished turd" Indeed

390 be brakin trannys



--------------------
L


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patrick
moparts member


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Grand Haven, MI
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: scratchnfotraction]
      #5620512 - Sun Nov 22 2009 12:20 PM

hmm...if the engine is currently a good runner, I'd be tempted to pick up another to build, so the car isn't down as long....

personally, I'd start with an '85-up 318 or '89 up 360....why? factory roller cam. you can either use any aftermarket hydraulic roller cam with the stock lifters, or get the stock roller cam reground.

my combo, which pushes my 3900 lb 5th ave with athorita':

stock '86 long block, pistons .055 in the hole
MR. gasket .028" thick head gaskets
OEM magnum heads home ported by me.
stock magnum pushrods, rockers, lifters
stock '86 roller cam reground by www.bulletcams.com with their HR259/316 lobe both intake and exhaust
headers
eddie RPM air gap, eddie 1406 carb

don't have any times or anything, but compared to the former 360, it should be a solid mid 14 second quarter....not bad for a car that is 4100 lbs + with me in it and 3.55 rear.

if you plan on using the original short block, I'd just use enginequest 318B heads (hughes sells them for $700/pr), lunati voodoo 60400 or 60401 cam, stock magnum rockers, and an eddie RPM or LD340 intake (looks more stock than an air gap). I'd definitely run headers, they'll give you about 20hp/20 lb-ft of torque over manifolds.

--------------------
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2006 Inferno Red Dodge Caravan SXT
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T


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rockerbob
mopar


Reged: Mar 01 2009
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: gtx6970]
      #5621859 - Mon Nov 23 2009 02:16 AM Attachment (46 downloads)

A 318 is only 22 cubes less than our famous & beloved 340. 318 blocks are not as strong as 340 or 360 blocks. However they are plenty strong for a good street motor. 350 hp is easy. 400 is do-able. As for 360 heads lowering the compression ration due to their larger chamber. Well thats not a bad thing "if" you want to run the cheap 87 octang gas. Stroker motors are the cheapest way to get good HP #'s, but are not too good on gas. I have a stock 318 short block in my bracket car. Orginal pistons still in it. 360LA heads 340 cam and its was cheap to build. A friend of mine has a 2002 Z28 Camaro 350. She says is stock (not so sure as I look at the cold air box on it) and was rated at 350HP. I have no trouble beater her in a heads up race. Her car is a bit heaiver & has a highway gear so she is gaining at the top end, but my 4:10 gear is holding me back on the top yet I still get by over a car length. Trust me that 318 of his can be made to run real nice. I would put headers on it though. Just my

--------------------
2005 Dakota 4X4 3.7
2004 Rumble Bee 5.7
1978 Diplomat 318
1969 Satellite 318 "bracket racer"
1966 Barracuda (in progress )
1964 Dodge 330 (future race project)
1962 Belvedere (HUM????)


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Bzzzz
member


Reged: Nov 08 2006
Loc: Wisconsin,USA
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: rockerbob]
      #6309885 - Fri Nov 19 2010 03:42 PM

how is the 318/390 using a Magnum combo for something like an old Jeep SJ ?? the AMC 360 is getting pretty tired and its just not as efficient im hoping with the longer stroke and more power it would be a little more easier on the Wallet??

--------------------
05 Hemi Ram 1500
70 Dodge Daytona clone
79 Cherokee Cummins
70 Manx 2


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GO_Fish
super gas


Reged: Jul 18 2003
Loc: Maryland
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Bzzzz]
      #6310328 - Fri Nov 19 2010 08:30 PM

if you have a good 318 block in hand and the budget is limited, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on a 390 stroker. I still have the matching # 318 from my '68 B'cuda sitting in the corner waiting for a rebuild. Now matching # 'teens aren't a big concern, but I still think it would be neat to drop the original block back in the engine bay someday and kick some butt!

--------------------
Scott B.

"I'm a self-made man... I started with nothing, and I still have most of it!"

68 360 rusty B'cuda 'vert (GO Fish)13.59@ 98.72 mph
69 340 GTS stock 14.18@ 95.60 mph
01 5.9L Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4x4
01 3.5L 300M 16.23@ 86.97 mph

Edited by GO_Fish (Fri Nov 19 2010 08:32 PM)


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derekeh
mopar


Reged: Oct 14 2004
Loc: Kentucky, USA
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda]
      #6310806 - Sat Nov 20 2010 07:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:



I agree, not many people complain about the Ford 289, and definitely not the infamous 302. Mopar guys tend to trash the 318 pretty quick.




Why would that be Goody?

Tell us what engineering difference there is between the 302 and the 318 that makes the 302 a better performance engine?

Do you even know?




I would like to know the answer to this please.


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340duster340
master


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: NY NY
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: tpabayflyer]
      #6310819 - Sat Nov 20 2010 08:06 AM

Quote:

rebuild the 318 on the cheap with a cast 4" crank... 390 cubes and mild upgrades will yield minimum 400HP easily and all the accessories,trans,etc will work..... Why everybody is so against that I can't understand... My 390 1983 Cordoba 3.73 gear is quite a bit faster than my old 'Cuda 360 with 3.91 gear.a 360 is nice but a 390 is better! TBF




cheap 4 inch crank? that is a recipe for disaster. the words cheap and crank should not be used in the same sentence.

do magnum 318 or 360, best bang for the buck there.


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The Sphinx
mopar


Reged: Jun 20 2010
Loc: Champion City
Re: 318 small block build recomendations [Re: Supercuda]
      #6310953 - Sat Nov 20 2010 09:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:



I agree, not many people complain about the Ford 289, and definitely not the infamous 302. Mopar guys tend to trash the 318 pretty quick.




Why would that be Goody?

Tell us what engineering difference there is between the 302 and the 318 that makes the 302 a better performance engine?

Do you even know?





Gee Wally, you think it's the extra .090 on the bore?
If it's all about the bore and stroke then why does a 3.5 liter from a new mopar put out more HP than a 1978 360? Maybe it's all those little thingys inside there working in perfect harmony.

Lets go back to bashing on Goody.......Goodys 318 is so slow it can only pass a 383.......and a gas station


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