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mercman1
mopar


Reged: Mar 21 2005
Loc: Stuart FL
70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you!
      #4474443 - Sat Jun 07 2008 07:45 PM Attachment (207 downloads)

I have real T/A that I restored with a 416 W-2 roller motor. With the 6 pack and exhaust manifolds on pump gas this made 470 horses and 490 ftlbs of torque.
I purchaed @ the Nats from the well known owner of a conversion company a complete kit. Trans, clutch, had them modify my scattershield and also the hydraulic throw out brg set up. just shy of $4k.
The salesman/owner of this company assured me that this was a complete bolt in... I expressed my concern that I would not even dimple the floor pans much less cut them or modify in any way as one day I will put back the complete 100% matching engine and trans.
I had several problems from the wrong clutch they sent me, to a throw out brg that expoded at 300 miles of use and hurt the trans so bad I had to ship the trans back at my cost for repairs and pay the difference for the "new updated" throw out bearing. Well I now have 1000 miles on this junk and the trans interferes with the trans tunnel transfering a severe vibration to the body as you row through the gears.
I have repeatedly complained to them about how poor this thing shifts... finally tech support (which as been great) got one of the engineers on the phone and he ask "where are you shifting"? I said 7-7500 RPM. His answer... GET THIS... They are not designed to shift over 6000 RPM, as a matter of fact the new Mustangs have the rev limiterset @ 5900 RPM.
They suggested I send the trans to Pro Motion a company that specializes in modified Tremecs on my $ of course.
I'm done with the agravation!!!The original 833 is on it's way in as we speak.
The company nor all the magazines that have tested these things said nothing about these issues.
This car has been a 6 year resto-mod. I drive my cars and I race them. The 5 speed made great sense for the best of both worlds. I'm so disappointed and out $4K
Just thought others would like to know.


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pro451bee
mopar addict


Reged: Jan 22 2006
Loc: WA
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4474524 - Sat Jun 07 2008 08:26 PM

I dont think many manual transmisions will work well without mods at that performance level.

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DAYCLONAŽ
Badge Bunny


Reged: Dec 10 2007
Loc: Mass
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4474722 - Sat Jun 07 2008 10:06 PM Attachment (200 downloads)

Not to start a "war"......there are more than several companies out there selling Tremec swaps, who was your "vendor" of choice?.........and shifting at 7-7500 rpm was your intention, you should have made that clear to the "supplier"?.....usally when I order or request a part/assy I usally spell out EXACTLY what I need and expect the part to do,.....that way I don't have any disapointments







440/6 Keisler 5spd, dana 60 4:10


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jsbrown
super street


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Colorado
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4474831 - Sat Jun 07 2008 11:09 PM

Sorry to hear about your experience, but misery loves company if nothing else. I've been messing with my setup off and on for 4yrs 9mos/1874 mi now... mostly due to the hyd clutch, and I've experienced "the wall" shifting down at 6k at the track. Much to the disappointment of a couple other project cars, I've replaced doing actual restorations with occasionally trying to make this stuff work the way I expect.

Jeff


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NTOLERANCE
I am a good coat rack, Eddy.


Reged: Aug 17 2003
Loc: Madison Wi
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: jsbrown]
      #4474865 - Sat Jun 07 2008 11:59 PM

Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")

Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?

I know some people swear by these transmissions and the other half that have them hate them,(or hate the fitment rather) but I dont beleive that these transmissions are designed for anything but street cruising......

If 6000 rpm was the LIMIT, wouldnt they post that in their advertising? ( yeah there is a bit of sarcasm there)

Interesting though, I was thinking about putting a summit hyd clutch set up in my car, but after hearing your problems, I dunno if hyd is the way to go......

I feel for ya man, youve got more in your trans that Ive got in my car. Big chunk of change to loose.

--------------------
I was Mopar when Mopar wasnt cool and life was just a bet on a race between the lights.

I'm just fine with my ugly unwanted early B body....thanks anyway....


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calmopar
Regular Guy


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: East Bay, N. Cal.
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: mercman1]
      #4474885 - Sun Jun 08 2008 12:44 AM

With all the "upgrades" (design/component flaw fixes) and shipping back and forth, I'm up to $6,300+

The trans is getting fitted, the floor modified, then the trans will get installed. Unlike the OP, I don't mind hacking the floor of my ex-318 car. I understand why he wouldn't want to cut his. For me, though, driveline angle is more important than preserving a floor (which I replaced anyway).

It's been a long, expensive ride, and I'll know soon if it's going to do the trick or not.

The car itself is going to look great. The motor is a top-shelf M.E.W. rebuild of an original block.

I am hoping for the best!

--------------------
You get the same order of criminality from any State to which you give power to exercise it; and whatever power you give the State to do things for you carries with it the equivalent power to do things to you.

Albert Jay Nock (1939)


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Dragula
super gas


Reged: May 02 2004
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: NTOLERANCE]
      #4475022 - Sun Jun 08 2008 06:50 AM

Quote:

Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")

Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?




I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I told everyone here my experiences with questions directly related to their B.S. 600hp claims behind hemis....Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't cover it....Waste $4k for warmed over under engineered line of B.S. and my point starts to sink in. Sorry, but when I asked them the tough questions, and that idiot chimed in on my post here, it just all comes back. I can't stand B.S. claims like they make when mild 302 mustwangs are taking gears out of them. They had two in the shop I usually use, and the gears were broken. Sorry, but no way they will handle a Hemi, and as it turns out, not even a stroked 340.....Junk.

Someone find my old post...and get that guy from Tremec back on here. Seems to me they had failures on last years Hot Rod power tour of the next brain fart.

I am sorry for your problem. On paper it all sounds good, but sometimes manufacturers put sales first customers second, and I thought I pointed that out before. There is one other trans company giving out similar BS. PM me if you want their name as well.

--------------------
2013 Champion Nostalgia Mod Gas Winner
http://www.gasserracingseries.com/modified-pts#!__modified-pts
'71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB With Fastest Pass 9.81/6.14 1.32 60ft 135.97mph


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RTSE4ME
super gas


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: MD
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4475136 - Sun Jun 08 2008 08:01 AM

I have a 70 Challenger with the same kit that is kind of a resto mod like yours...but not as nice as yours.
Here are a couple suggestions that may or may not help. Since your car was an originally a 4 speed car why don't you try the mechanical linkage. I thought the hydraulic set up was for people who were converting to auto and didn't want to deal with installing the linkage.
Another thing you could try is get rid of the pistol grip and use a ball handle. I bought a used 7" hurst handle with a ball handle for $20 and it makes shifting a lot more natural for me compared to the pistol grip but I don't shift any where near 7500 rpms.

My trans also interferd with the tunnel...I think most e-bodies do on the right side. I just clearenced it a bit...


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NTOLERANCE
I am a good coat rack, Eddy.


Reged: Aug 17 2003
Loc: Madison Wi
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: Dragula]
      #4475186 - Sun Jun 08 2008 08:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")

Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?




I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I told everyone here my experiences with questions directly related to their B.S. 600hp claims behind hemis....Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't cover it....Waste $4k for warmed over under engineered line of B.S. and my point starts to sink in. Sorry, but when I asked them the tough questions, and that idiot chimed in on my post here, it just all comes back. I can't stand B.S. claims like they make when mild 302 mustwangs are taking gears out of them. They had two in the shop I usually use, and the gears were broken. Sorry, but no way they will handle a Hemi, and as it turns out, not even a stroked 340.....Junk.

Someone find my old post...and get that guy from Tremec back on here. Seems to me they had failures on last years Hot Rod power tour of the next brain fart.

I am sorry for your problem. On paper it all sounds good, but sometimes manufacturers put sales first customers second, and I thought I pointed that out before. There is one other trans company giving out similar BS. PM me if you want their name as well.




Umm......I just thought of something...

Shouldnt a transmissions service level be rated in TORQUE capabilities and not HP?

I'll stick with my 23 spline 833. If I want an overdrive, I'll take the stratus.

--------------------
I was Mopar when Mopar wasnt cool and life was just a bet on a race between the lights.

I'm just fine with my ugly unwanted early B body....thanks anyway....


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moparmarks
Mopartician


Reged: Nov 09 2003
Loc: Western Colorado High Desert
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: NTOLERANCE]
      #4475209 - Sun Jun 08 2008 08:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Umm.......Arent these transmissions supposed to take like 600 HP in top form? ( I know there are different "levels")

Anyone here have a 600 HP small block that shifts BELOW 6000?




I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I told everyone here my experiences with questions directly related to their B.S. 600hp claims behind hemis....Somehow, "I told you so" doesn't cover it....Waste $4k for warmed over under engineered line of B.S. and my point starts to sink in. Sorry, but when I asked them the tough questions, and that idiot chimed in on my post here, it just all comes back. I can't stand B.S. claims like they make when mild 302 mustwangs are taking gears out of them. They had two in the shop I usually use, and the gears were broken. Sorry, but no way they will handle a Hemi, and as it turns out, not even a stroked 340.....Junk.

Someone find my old post...and get that guy from Tremec back on here. Seems to me they had failures on last years Hot Rod power tour of the next brain fart.

I am sorry for your problem. On paper it all sounds good, but sometimes manufacturers put sales first customers second, and I thought I pointed that out before. There is one other trans company giving out similar BS. PM me if you want their name as well.




Umm......I just thought of something...

Shouldnt a transmissions service level be rated in TORQUE capabilities and not HP?

I'll stick with my 23 spline 833. If I want an overdrive, I'll take the stratus.




I think they are. The Tremec is 600LB and the TKO is rated at 850LB of torque. I've installed a couple of both in E bodies. All hit the tunnel without mods. Both shift hard but seemed to loosen up with miles. They are nice for the street but I'd take an 833 for racing.
They never said anything about RPM limitions. All of ours came from Keisler.

--------------------
71 RR A/G 4-sp Dana, 72 SSP 440, 72 Dart 440, 92 CTD, 97 DAKOTA, amoung others.
Moparmarks Parts & Restorations
Desert Mopar Metal
Grand Jct. CO
970-261-7039
http://moparmark.com/
moparmark@bresnan.net
Carlisle P195-201
Nats P23-28


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DAYCLONAŽ
Badge Bunny


Reged: Dec 10 2007
Loc: Mass
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: RTSE4ME]
      #4475284 - Sun Jun 08 2008 09:18 AM Attachment (144 downloads)

Well, we don't exactly know what set up Mercman has, Keisler, Classic 5, Darkhorse, etc,.....I'll speak from my experience with Keisler, after installing many of their several versions of TKO 5's, and AOD4, the only failure was one hyd. master cyl. and one input shaft, the input shaft failure was due to a rather inexperienced "employee" who had "forgotten" to install the front BEARING! when installing a Hyd clutch set up,.......other than that NO failures since 2002 on any Keisler equipped vehicle, mine or customers, and they've been put behind everything up to several 600HP Hemis, I have a TKO Keisler in my Daytona, I have no problems shifting at 6000 rpm, or down shifting so hard as to lock up the rear end,......but then again I take the time to procure/ install a unit that I know will handle the job, rather than op out at cost and settle for an inferior/ lower performing unit,....the TKO in my Daytona is a $6000 dollar set up right from the start, all the gears have been replaced with chromalloy 4130 steel gears, as well as ugrades to the bearings/ shafts/ etc the entire tranny was built to my request, knowing it would see extreme street/ racing conditions,.....last thing that I want, as well as the next guy is to spend coin, only to regret it later because I didn't research the product.....I know sometimes we rely on the "wisdom" of the supplier, but if you don't question/ research for yourself, sometimes your at their mercy,.......I've been there in the past, and vowed never to be "there" again......I feel for you Mercman, it sounds like, from your post, you "relied" on "their"(?) advice for a unit, or perhaps the $4K was your limit?.......are you running a TKO 500?....if so I'd limit that tranny to a "warm" smblk,....325-375 HP..........trust me, I beat the snot out of my cars, with the intent of breaking something!

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DAYCLONAŽ
Badge Bunny


Reged: Dec 10 2007
Loc: Mass
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: DAYCLONAŽ]
      #4475303 - Sun Jun 08 2008 09:27 AM Attachment (202 downloads)

1500+ HP combined.....all running Keisler TKO 600's, all driven HARD on the street or Track

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Dragula
super gas


Reged: May 02 2004
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: DAYCLONAŽ]
      #4475324 - Sun Jun 08 2008 09:35 AM

For the amount of money it seems everyone has invested in these things, a Lenco ST1200 would have been money in the bank. Let alone how much an 833 would have saved you.

--------------------
2013 Champion Nostalgia Mod Gas Winner
http://www.gasserracingseries.com/modified-pts#!__modified-pts
'71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB With Fastest Pass 9.81/6.14 1.32 60ft 135.97mph


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wildman340
master


Reged: Mar 10 2003
Loc: Southern Oklahoma
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: Dragula]
      #4475404 - Sun Jun 08 2008 10:02 AM

Some good info about the Tremec:
http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/tremec.htm

--------------------
1974 Dodge Dart Sport 340 4 Spd Endless Project
1999 Ram 1500 CC 5.2 5 speed


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mercman1
mopar


Reged: Mar 21 2005
Loc: Stuart FL
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4475534 - Sun Jun 08 2008 10:58 AM Attachment (166 downloads)

Let me clear up a few issues first...
I read every magazine test or post on the Tremec conversion/ installation for about two years BEFORE buying my set up. Usually the articles were about B-bodies. These I understand have no fitment problems. I was well aware that A bodies require trans tunnel mods. E-bodies were supposed to be like B bodies. I heard some rumors that some E- bodies "Could" have fit ment issues.
This unit is from Keisler... I sat down with the owner (Shafri???) to discuss the aplication. I brought up fitment reservations...He assured me it would fit with no mods. He at first recommended the entry level 450 ft lbs rated trans. I explained that the engine had already been dynoed with a 6 pack and manifolds at 490 ft lbs of torque and that some day Id throw on the Victor W2/ HP 950- carb intake and headers (worth probably another 50-60 hp???) He then recomended the next unit rated at 550 ft lbs. I already had a complete Centerforce dual friction clutch set up but he said his was better, so not wanting to piece parts and have them later point the finger to a clutch that was not theres I gave in and bought his clutch, shifter and had him modify my scatter sheild. The original intention was for my wife to drive this on occasion as I also have a low 11 second street 69 GTX so I ordered up the hydraulic throw out brg set up which now works excellent!
Now some have questioned the shifting vs RPM... this is a MUSCLE CAR!!!Yes it is fine on the street at 3500 RPM but we drive these to hear the tires squeal and the engine whine. I have the horsepower for this to run low 12s maybe with sticky tires go 11:90s. This thing is so poor at shifting it only went 14.19 @105 mph at the Southern Mopar nats in GA two weeks ago. That is stock Mustang teritory not Mopar Muscle times.
Mr Dayclona...If I'm told the price of admission is $4K that is one thing...But if the real price is $6K let me know that up front and I will respect you so much more! At 6K I will look at other options...Jerico or what else is out there.
Bottom line some of these magazine guys got free parts (Im sure you now how that works) for doing an article on these trans and arn't about to say ANYTHING negative.
Shame on these so called journalist for taking gifts with out disclosing the truth!


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blown340
"accepts change"


Reged: Aug 25 2004
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4475742 - Sun Jun 08 2008 12:24 PM

Maybe its something with the hydraulic clutch? I'm using the mechanical clutch linkage with my Keisler/tremec setup in my 340 challenger and have had no issues while shifting at 6500. I'm also making quite a bit more power thanks to 15psi of boost and its holding up quite well. I do have a custom hydraulic setup on my scamp that I converted from a A904 to a A833OD and it doesn't like to shift nearly as fast as the mechanical linkage does.

-Jon

--------------------
70 challenger convertible. 340/5 speed. blown, intercooled, efi, blah blah blah

71 valiant scamp 318/A833OD/AC/PS

00 dakota RC 4.7L 5 spd autoX'r. SRT10/T56 swap in process

73 W200 Power wagon, PTO winch, 4 spd


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viperakron
mopar


Reged: Apr 24 2005
Loc: Ohio
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: blown340]
      #4475760 - Sun Jun 08 2008 12:32 PM

I have a Viper with a Tremic. They are strong but you can't power shift them, The trans was made for my car. I have some mods and make 475 at the wheels. Never broke anything in the trans but you can't do anything but speed shift it and expect to get in all the gears consistantly.

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daytonakid
enthusiast


Reged: Mar 04 2003
Loc: oregon
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: blown340]
      #4475796 - Sun Jun 08 2008 12:52 PM

I have a kiesler tremec setup in my superbird clone I purchased it in 2000. Within months I had the shiftrods fall apart. I had to remove top of trans. They had used drift pins that were to loose. Had to send trans back for warranty work. I bought complete kit including bell housing. Trans shifts like a big truck. Now I guess they have a updated shift tower but keisler has never sent me info so I could solve my problem. I have always had clutch problems. I installed their mccleod clutch first had very high peddle effort and the pressure plate finally failed. They then sold me a diaphram clutch and told remove me to remove the overcenter spring. I never did remove the over center spring because I know how hard they are to replace. I tried to tell them that is the wrong for a mopar but they assured me it would work. If you drive normal it's fine try to shift it under hard acceleration cluth pedal sticks to floor. I have so many other projects at work and at home I just gave up and I've just lived with this for years. But it doesn't work right. I remember when I started this project they tried to talk me into their hyd clutch. Come to find out the first ones were junk. Glad I didn't listen to them on that one. If they have poor engineering they should offer updates to us poor suckers stuck with their junk. I have a gear vendors in my duster that runs 10.30 has been there for 4 years not one problem. I only spent 2300 for it you tell me which is best. Bill

Edited by daytonakid (Sun Jun 08 2008 12:55 PM)


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70440+6bbl
master


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: NY
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: daytonakid]
      #4476178 - Sun Jun 08 2008 04:34 PM

I gave up on their junk after having TWO hydraulic TO bearings blow and ruin my $500.00 Mcleod clutches in my '70 RR 493 A-833 powered car The second time was on the starting line at Island Dragway, sucked big time!!! My buddy has not had much luck with the set-up in his '72 'Cuda 493 TKO set-up.
I have had decent luck with the TKO 600 trannies in most of the 5.0 Mustwangs I have built over the last couple of years. Not the easiest trans to powershift (unless sent to Pro-Motion in FL), although it is holding up just fine in my [Email]10.90@129[/Email] 5.0 single turbo car


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DAYCLONAŽ
Badge Bunny


Reged: Dec 10 2007
Loc: Mass
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4476362 - Sun Jun 08 2008 05:45 PM Attachment (121 downloads)

Quote:

magazine guys got free parts (Im sure you now how that works)





No, I don't know how that works?.......perhaps you could enlighten me? because if there's free parts, I wanna be first in line!


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wldtm
mopar addict


Reged: May 17 2005
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: DAYCLONAŽ]
      #4476625 - Sun Jun 08 2008 07:25 PM

i have a tremec in a 69 a body. I too am disappointed about the 6000 RPM limit, but not much I can do now. Maybe there is an alternative like switching to a different lubricant, but at worst I would say that it may need to be modified synchros for the higher rpm shifts. There is a difference between torque rating and RPM limit, and it seems if tremec (not keisler) would address the issues with synchros that could handle higher RPM's without aftermarket mods the trans would be worth it. The shifting at 6k is not keislers fault, that is on most stock tremecs. Sorry for the issues with your car, never like to see someone feel like they were lead astray.

Justin

--------------------
Interested in having you car wired? Drag car, street car, EFI swap?
PM for details


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NITROUSN
I Live Here


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: wldtm]
      #4476826 - Sun Jun 08 2008 08:46 PM

Its just a transmission that is run in many cars besides the mopars. If you cant shift it at high rpm's that suggests to me you have either a clutch or alignment issue. I would think the latter. The bellhousings need to be dialed is as well as crank end play checked. Flywheel runouts also need to be checked. Its not rocket science. To many people just toss them in and think everything will be ok. You need tools and you need to measure everything. Not everyone has the tools or knowledge to install these correctly.

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daytonakid
enthusiast


Reged: Mar 04 2003
Loc: oregon
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: NITROUSN]
      #4476840 - Sun Jun 08 2008 08:55 PM

I checked all of that when installing my setup. Bill

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DAYCLONAŽ
Badge Bunny


Reged: Dec 10 2007
Loc: Mass
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: NITROUSN]
      #4476893 - Sun Jun 08 2008 09:16 PM Attachment (141 downloads)

Pete,......you hit the nail on the head!,.....I wasn't gonna step in that "minefield",......but you "opened" the door,.......9 1/2 out of 10 times it's "IE".....installation error, something wasn't checked, or double checked, or a presumed decision was made without confirming it,...or the lack of equipment to properly install, or adjust,.....this applies to not just Keislers/Tremacs,....any componet installed,.....like I've said, after quite a few Keisler installs, I've only had two faliures, a bad hyd. master cylinder, right out of the box, Keisler supplied, but not made/ nor modified by them,.....and a input shaft sheared off a TKO 600, that was due to an "inexperienced employee" that thought he knew "everything"......and FORGOT to install the front BEARING .....he was fired! I've beaten the sh1t out of every Keisler set up,......and have yet had to experience any breakage?.....I usally find that when something fails , it's the result of an improper application, or improper installation?

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wldtm
mopar addict


Reged: May 17 2005
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: daytonakid]
      #4476895 - Sun Jun 08 2008 09:16 PM

"TREMEC is built with solid bronze synchros with no linings. It is for these reasons that the TREMEC does not like to shift well above ~6,500rpms unless modified. There is a way to improve the shifting but is only used for drag racing when down shifting is not needed."

Found at http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/tremec.htm
and per tremec tech representative

--------------------
Interested in having you car wired? Drag car, street car, EFI swap?
PM for details


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daytonakid
enthusiast


Reged: Mar 04 2003
Loc: oregon
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: wldtm]
      #4476919 - Sun Jun 08 2008 09:28 PM

So I'm an idiot who can't follow instructions. Why do we see kiesler engineering design changes if they are so perfect. I guess instead of being one of their first guinea pigs I should have waited. Its amazing my gear vendors handles way more horsepower under much higher stress loads and doesn't miss a beat. I still like my kiesler setup but I feel abandoned because I ended up with the first poorly engineered pieces. Bill

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Anonymous
Unregistered



Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4476929 - Sun Jun 08 2008 09:31 PM

I have the TKO 5 from Keisler installed in my '71 Satellite behind a 383. After I first put it in I noticed the angle of the powertrain was out of wack- the rear of the engine was too low. After installing an air grabber hood, it became painfully clear how far out my set up was. My kit was a very early E body kit that I fit into a B body. Keisler wasn't sure it would fit, but I told them it would fit with a longer driveline. In the end, I sent the trans. back once and had a updated shift mechanism installed and the rear of the tailshaft housing machined down for more clearance. Once I installed it, it still would not go high enough in the tunnel. So I modified the trans tunnel. They also sent me a modified transmission crossmember. I had to build a 1" aluminum spacer for the crossmember to get it right. Last, but not least, I cut the spring pearches off my axle tubes, phased both u-joints on the driveline and welded the new spring pearches in place, this made a huge difference. The car is now smooth up to 100 mph. The transmission shifts fine at 6500 rpm. I'm using the centerforce clutch and my bellhousing is centered to .002" I did have problems with Keislers pilot bearing that has a brass sleeve on it to adapt it to fit the big block crank. I found the sleeve had come loose and was not holding the pilot in place. I found a Ford pilot bearing with the same I.D. and a larger O.D. and machined it down to fit the crank. It took a couple of years to get all the bugs out of this tranny install, but now it works great.

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RylisPro
Be quiet and drive...


Reged: Jun 18 2007
Loc: NorCal
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: ]
      #4476966 - Sun Jun 08 2008 10:01 PM

Wow, if it is this hard to install 5-speed kits behind Mopar engines I wonder how it will be to install a T-56 ?!!


--------------------

/Drive


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DAYCLONAŽ
Badge Bunny


Reged: Dec 10 2007
Loc: Mass
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: RylisPro]
      #4477371 - Mon Jun 09 2008 07:48 AM

Quote:

Wow, if it is this hard to install 5-speed kits behind Mopar engines I wonder how it will be to install a T-56 ?!!







Well when it done right the first time, there's no problems.......be it a Tranny swap, supercharger install or changing points.......some people can "fubar" spreading peanut butter


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NITROUSN
I Live Here


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: DAYCLONAŽ]
      #4477429 - Mon Jun 09 2008 08:31 AM

Quote:

Pete,......you hit the nail on the head!,.....I wasn't gonna step in that "minefield",......but you "opened" the door,.......9 1/2 out of 10 times it's "IE".....installation error, something wasn't checked, or double checked, or a presumed decision was made without confirming it,...or the lack of equipment to properly install, or adjust,.....this applies to not just Keislers/Tremacs,....any componet installed,.....like I've said, after quite a few Keisler installs, I've only had two faliures, a bad hyd. master cylinder, right out of the box, Keisler supplied, but not made/ nor modified by them,.....and a input shaft sheared off a TKO 600, that was due to an "inexperienced employee" that thought he knew "everything"......and FORGOT to install the front BEARING .....he was fired! I've beaten the sh1t out of every Keisler set up,......and have yet had to experience any breakage?.....I usally find that when something fails , it's the result of an improper application, or improper installation?




Mine field. Lots of them around. I know several chevvy guys running them up to 9 grand and banging gears without a problem. You guys with the problems must be holding your lips in the wrong position. when wrenching or rowing gears


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CJK440
master


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Ansonia, CT
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: NITROUSN]
      #4477509 - Mon Jun 09 2008 09:23 AM

A couple of things.

The TKO 500 and TKO 600 are rated at 500 ft/lbs and 600 ft/lbs respectively. Rating them in horsepower seems to be a marketing ploy.

Also, unless somebody can enlighten me, not one car ever had a TKO series transmission ever installed from the factory. Tremec does make OE trannies like the T-5 and T-56 but the TKO trannies are purely aftermarket transmissions.

I installed a TKO 600 behind a 440 cuda and ran 11's. It shifted wonderfully. Reliable as heck. However, I did my own hackjob using the tried and true Mopar clutch linkage and used Tremecs in-line short shifter and cut a hole instead of an outrigger design which I can't imagine helps gear changes. Obviously since the OP wanted just a bolt in setup he couldn't have done the same as me.


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Hrtbkr
I will drive 800 miles for a cheap car show trophy!!


Reged: Apr 01 2003
Loc: On the open road
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: CJK440]
      #4477752 - Mon Jun 09 2008 11:45 AM

Quote:


Also, unless somebody can enlighten me, not one car ever had a TKO series transmission ever installed from the factory. Tremec does make OE trannies like the T-5 and T-56 but the TKO trannies are purely aftermarket transmissions.





The TKO was installed in mid to late nineties Ford Cobra Mustangs.

--------------------
While outside on the turnpike
They got this new hit tune
Where thrills become as cheap as gas
And gas as cheap as thrills


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CJK440
master


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Ansonia, CT
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: Hrtbkr]
      #4477870 - Mon Jun 09 2008 12:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Also, unless somebody can enlighten me, not one car ever had a TKO series transmission ever installed from the factory. Tremec does make OE trannies like the T-5 and T-56 but the TKO trannies are purely aftermarket transmissions.





The TKO was installed in mid to late nineties Ford Cobra Mustangs.




My 1997 Cobra had a Tremec T-45 with the integral bellhousing. I know for sure, I rebuilt it.

The 96-99 Cobras all had the T-45 then after that, Ford went with the Tremec 3650.


Here, I found this.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/TKO.asp

Tremec says the TKO is aftermarket only.....but they also go on to say the T-45 is aftermarket only but also say it came in 96-99 cobras perhaps the T-45 is aftermarket only at this point in time??


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471Magnum
master


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Space Station #5
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: Hrtbkr]
      #4478277 - Mon Jun 09 2008 04:30 PM

I believe the Tremec TKO was offered in the 1995 Cobra R only... very limited production.

4.6L Mustangs of that generation used the T45, which are junk, although quality and engineering improved immensely once Tremec took over from B-W.

The current Mustang GT Tremec is a close cousin to the TKO, sharing the same architecture.

--------------------
-Jim
I can fix it... my old man is a television repairman.
He's got the ultimate set of tools... I can fix it.

Currently Mopar-less


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Oldschool
mopar addict


Reged: Nov 21 2006
Loc: Stuart, FL
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: DAYCLONAŽ]
      #4478362 - Mon Jun 09 2008 05:06 PM

Quote:

Pete,......you hit the nail on the head!,.....I wasn't gonna step in that "minefield",......but you "opened" the door,.......9 1/2 out of 10 times it's "IE".....installation error, something wasn't checked, or double checked, or a presumed decision was made without confirming it,...or the lack of equipment to properly install, or adjust,.....this applies to not just Keislers/Tremacs,....any componet installed,.....like I've said, after quite a few Keisler installs, I've only had two faliures, a bad hyd. master cylinder, right out of the box, Keisler supplied, but not made/ nor modified by them,.....and a input shaft sheared off a TKO 600, that was due to an "inexperienced employee" that thought he knew "everything"......and FORGOT to install the front BEARING .....he was fired! I've beaten the sh1t out of every Keisler set up,......and have yet had to experience any breakage?.....I usally find that when something fails , it's the result of an improper application, or improper installation?



Dude, I hear alot of talk about you driving these cars "hard", but what are the dragstrip numbers? Driving on a road course in the rain is not powershifting at 7K rpm 3 times in 11 seconds. The bottom line is that these guys are advertising a "bolt-in" product. I have been power-shifting and drag racing Mopars since I was 16. I assembled the 833 in my original 69 RT 4sp Dana car on my back in my parents driveway with a broomstick wrapped with masking tape for a clutch alignment tool. This was in the 80s with a worn out Hays clutch, worn out pedals and linkage, and the original Hurst shifter. The only thing I did was use Mr. Gasket steel bushings on the shift rods. The car launched so hard it eventually ripped the door stirker out of the jamb, and I would powershift it routinely at 6K rpm (every time I left the driveway as a 16 year-old should) and I had NO shimming the K-member, NO re-working the driveline angle, No precision adjustments, NO sending the trans out for a bunch of trick parts, etc, etc.
The point is these are musclecars, and the manufacturers are advertising the product as "bolt-in" and "no mods". It's nice if you can get a wing car to run a road course and get 7 more miles to the gallon on the highway, but these cars were built to drag race, and if you can't shift 'em at 6K grand upon bolting it in the car without modifying the driveline, and a dozen other adjustments not required on a factory install, then the manufacturer didn't come through as promised.

--------------------
'70 Cuda 440/auto
'70 Duster 340/4sp project
'70 Satellite convert 318 survivor
'67 GTX 440/auto
'06 Chrysler 300 SRT8
'97 Ram SS/T
'65 Valiant 318/4sp


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mercman1
mopar


Reged: Mar 21 2005
Loc: Stuart FL
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4478658 - Mon Jun 09 2008 07:03 PM Attachment (269 downloads)

Guy's this is not my first rodeo...I am pretty handy and what I don't know I will consult or let the experts in the field do for me. Some of you are saying that it is out of alignment here is a picture taken in the proces. I eventually got it within .003. My 68 Cuda 440 4spd eventually went 11 teens.... no special parts in that 833. Next???

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wildman340
master


Reged: Mar 10 2003
Loc: Southern Oklahoma
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: Oldschool]
      #4478676 - Mon Jun 09 2008 07:11 PM

Hmmmm, I thought the T/A's were built for road courses. I have installed a few 4 speeds too, but they were all Mopar parts, not a combination of aftermarket stuff, so everything was fool proof. You can't even install a blowproof bellhousing without making adjustments. BTW, the OP is shifting at 7-7500 rpm, which is above the 6-6500 rpm level suggested by the manufacturer. With that rpm and the power he is making, you need to be 100% sure everything is aligned correctly.

--------------------
1974 Dodge Dart Sport 340 4 Spd Endless Project
1999 Ram 1500 CC 5.2 5 speed


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mercman1
mopar


Reged: Mar 21 2005
Loc: Stuart FL
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you [Re: wildman340]
      #4478719 - Mon Jun 09 2008 07:25 PM Attachment (126 downloads)

I have all intentions of taking this on a road course (15 miutes from Moroso and 1.5 hrs from Sebring) hence the QA1 adjustables on all 4 corners and the Goodyear Formula 1 rain tires. I need to get it to shift at rpm first. Small block with W-2s and a roller cam need rpm to make horsepower.

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Ronnman
super gas


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Slidell, LA
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: mercman1]
      #4478800 - Mon Jun 09 2008 07:51 PM

I've got to go with mecman1 on this one. I just read through the latest Mopar Muscle Mag and there is the classic Keisler ad and I quote "Get the total package with Keisler---1) "Lowers engine RPM", 2) "Easy Installation", 3)"Extended engine life, 4) "More gears, uncompromised performance", 5) "All necessary components", and 6) "Highest quality parts". I guess 3 or 4 out of 6 isn't bad----------------- if you are a batter. I for one will never purchase anything from Keisler. Too much bad feedback here on Moparts. I've read Keiler's replys to posts and they seems to care. But, for the money people are laying down, don't sugar coat the product to cover the downside. Just my 2 cents.
Ron

PS: Why is every picture I see of XV Motorsport's ads, show the cars driving in the rain?


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NITROUSN
I Live Here


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
Re: 70 E body tremec 5 speed...what they don't tell you! [Re: Ronnman]
      #4478890 - Mon Jun 09 2008 08:16 PM

Quote:

I've got to go with mecman1 on this one. I just read through the latest Mopar Muscle Mag and there is the classic Keisler ad and I quote "Get the total package with Keisler---1) "Lowers engine RPM", 2) "Easy Installation", 3)"Extended engine life, 4) "More gears, uncompromised performance", 5) "All necessary components", and 6) "Highest quality parts". I guess 3 or 4 out of 6 isn't bad----------------- if you are a batter. I for one will never purchase anything from Keisler. Too much bad feedback here on Moparts. I've read Keiler's replys to posts and they seems to care. But, for the money people are laying down, don't sugar coat the product to cover the downside. Just my 2 cents.





The Keisler people hit on all 6 for me.

A lot of the negative crap gets slung by people that never owned one or ever will have one. Lots of hapl ford and gm guys running them as well as most mopar guys. You just dont see the happy ones crying.


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