astjp2
top fuel
Reged: Jan 19 2011
Loc: Utah and Alaska
|
|
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/new-pr...red-by-borgeson
It was great until I saw the price...Tim
|
Supercuda
I also have a small weasel!!
Reged: Sep 04 2007
Loc: West Texas
|
|
Quote:
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/new-pr...red-by-borgeson
It was great until I saw the price...Tim
You do realize that there is NOTHING quick about that ratio? It's stock for all power steering units.
|
amxautox
Retired. Dont Ask Me To Do Anything. Except Post on Moparts.
Reged: May 13 2003
Loc: The Dog House, Maple Valley Wa
|
|
With real quick ratio boxes you have to be very carefull when driving on the street and have an emergency manuvour. I have a 12 to one box and had a fool half way across the center line on a blind curve in the hills. If I hadn't been used to the box then I would have been into the bank nose first. It's great for the autocross, but probably way too quick for a real road course.
--------------------
Tom
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle
 
|
dangina
super stock
Reged: Nov 19 2008
Loc: Lethbridge, AB, Canada
|
|
i wonder if they lightened up the box at all at that price...
|
Pacnorthcuda
National Ego-Stroking Day
Reged: Nov 19 2007
Loc: Kirkland, Washington
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/new-pr...red-by-borgeson
It was great until I saw the price...Tim
You do realize that there is NOTHING quick about that ratio? It's stock for all power steering units.
Mopar power units were 15.7:1 Often stated as 16:1 So yes 14:1 is quick. With a long pitman it would be really quick
|
DynoDave
master
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Oxford, MI
|
|
Quote:
With real quick ratio boxes you have to be very carefull when driving on the street and have an emergency manuvour. I have a 12 to one box and had a fool half way across the center line on a blind curve in the hills. If I hadn't been used to the box then I would have been into the bank nose first. It's great for the autocross, but probably way too quick for a real road course.
I nice development indeed!
amxautox has a good point. You would not want it to be too quick of a ratio.
These folks are offering a new Delphi box with a 14:1 ratio, which appears to be the same ratio as the WS6 TransAm box, from what I read.
WS6
What scares me more is the $750 pricetag! 
--------------------
DynoDave
Cordoba Club USA
www.cordobaclubusa.com
WPC #12304
1970 Plymouth Duster
1972 Dodge Charger Rallye
1977 Chrysler Cordoba
|
Supercuda
I also have a small weasel!!
Reged: Sep 04 2007
Loc: West Texas
|
|
3.5 lock to lock is the same, ergo ratio is the same.
|
Grizzly
top fuel
Reged: Aug 24 2005
Loc: at work
|
|
I don't know what passes inspection in your districts, but a weld on any steering component here is an automatic "fail". Actually, it's serious enough that a welder can have all of their credentials taken away.
Before considering this item, check your local regulations first.
|
Jjs72D
Not so lucky
Reged: Apr 03 2012
Loc: California
|
|
Is this thing supposed to be a direct fit for Power OR manual steering columns?
NOT that I am interested. They just failed to mention it in the ad. PLUS, $750...??? You can take a POS from the junkyard, spend $350 for a Firm Feel rebuild, add Fast Ratio idler and pitman arms for another $250, and have 12 to 1 ratio for $100 less.
Jeff
|
autoxcuda
I Live Here
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: So Cal
|
|
Quote:
Is this thing supposed to be a direct fit for Power OR manual steering columns?
NOT that I am interested. They just failed to mention it in the ad. PLUS, $750...??? You can take a POS from the junkyard, spend $350 for a Firm Feel rebuild, add Fast Ratio idler and pitman arms for another $250, and have 12 to 1 ratio for $100 less.
Jeff
For only $100 more, IMHO you are getting a brand new box and lighter weight. It's faster ratio than stock. And to some a better all around ratio. Seems like many sporty new cars have around 14:1 steering.
The long arm method doesn't work with certain headers in some cars. No A-body will work with long pitman and headers at all.
Also the Delphi box is lighter. And it's NEW. Not rebuilt.
I heard this was being worked on a 1 1/2 years ago from someone. Glad it came out. Sort of bummer on the price.
I specifically asked Borgeson at the SEMA show last November about adapting a Dephi box to a Mopar... They said they had no plans. But that was just one of the guys in the both. And probably can't show all thier cards.
I think the 3.5 turns lock to lock is mis-information.
Fact is the Dephi box is 14:1. The Mopar box it 16:1
Dephi also makes a 12:1 or around that box. IIRC, it's the same casting/body as the 14:1 box. So that could/should be in the future.
The welding doesn't concern me as much as the what looks to be lack of gussets and support between the plate and the output shaft tube. The regular Delphi boxes have a long output shaft tube.
It's nice that they designed it using the stock pitman (or any stock pitman). That lowers the cost when it wears out needing replacement.
--------------------
Fall Fling XVII
October 26 2013
Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA
www.cpwclub.com
Fri: Malibu Cruise
300+ show cars, 150+ swap, manf. midways
|
HUSTLESTUFF
super gas
Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: NORTHERN CA
|
|
They reported it as a remanufactured unit.
--------------------
"Were in it to win it. Anything less will end up being..... A whole lot of fun doing!!" UNLAWFL
RIP UN
|
BigBlockMopar
super street
Reged: Jan 22 2003
Loc: The Netherlands
|
|
I wonder how much it will clear the engine in a Dart with a newerstyle Hemi in it.
--------------------
BigBlockMopar.com
|
HotRodDave
The Mileage Master
Reged: Jan 29 2005
Loc: Kalispell Mt.
|
|
thats not the only weld either 
--------------------
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
68 cuda 360 notchback SOLD
1996 Ram 2500 5.9 eddy intake EQ heads, mild cam upgrade great tow rig!
|
Challenger_Nut
enthusiast
Reged: Dec 29 2005
Loc: WV.
|
|
The price is RIDICULOUS!!!! 
|
autoxcuda
I Live Here
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: So Cal
|
|
Quote:
The price is RIDICULOUS!!!!
The fast ratio (12.7:1 vs 14:1) alternative is $100 less (~15%). Also the Delphi unit is much lighter and might give you better header clearance. Lets see one in a car; clearance might be worse. Also the fast ratio alternative will not fit a significant number of cars.
I'd like to see better support between the mounting plate and output housing.
--------------------
Fall Fling XVII
October 26 2013
Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA
www.cpwclub.com
Fri: Malibu Cruise
300+ show cars, 150+ swap, manf. midways
|
Grizzly
top fuel
Reged: Aug 24 2005
Loc: at work
|
|
Quote:
thats not the only weld either
Yup. Looks like something some backyard mechanic put together with JB Weld after smokin' a big fat Marley. This has to be some kind of a joke. 
Happy Birthday there, Big Guy! 
|
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
|
|
Borgeson has been converting boxes for 55-57 Chevies for over twenty years, Mustang boxes for about seven years... Everyone I've known that has bought on has been very happy so I can assure you it's not a joke... I have one of their Mustang boxes in my Falcon, it's the best option available for that application IMO... Likely the Mopar box won't be well received because from what I've seen very few aftermarket upgrades are... If you have a better steering box option spend the money to bring it to market & we'll vote with our wallets... 
--------------------
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
|
72Swinger
super stock
Reged: Feb 23 2011
Loc: Nebraska
|
|
Delphi is good s##t! I agree, what are your other options? Im glad to see someone ATTEMPTING a better box that bolts in. I guess its better and more cost effective to convert the whole front end over to a rack setup to get power steering and Big Blocks as well as Gen III Hemi to work in A bodies......
--------------------
Mopar to the bone!!!
|
autoxcuda
I Live Here
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: So Cal
|
|
Quote:
Borgeson has been converting boxes for 55-57 Chevies for over twenty years, Mustang boxes for about seven years... Everyone I've known that has bought on has been very happy so I can assure you it's not a joke... I have one of their Mustang boxes in my Falcon, it's the best option available for that application IMO... Likely the Mopar box won't be well received because from what I've seen very few aftermarket upgrades are... If you have a better steering box option spend the money to bring it to market & we'll vote with our wallets...
How much did the Falcon box cost you?
What do they retail for?
--------------------
Fall Fling XVII
October 26 2013
Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA
www.cpwclub.com
Fri: Malibu Cruise
300+ show cars, 150+ swap, manf. midways
|
Jjs72D
Not so lucky
Reged: Apr 03 2012
Loc: California
|
|
That picture doesn't show if there is the crucial THIRD bolt position to the left of the sector. Without it, this thing is worthless. It would be nice to see another angle.
|
Vacation-5
just idiot?
Reged: Mar 07 2007
Loc: Finally a HUSKER again
|
|
Heres a thought, Why wouldnt a steering quickener work out of say a dirt late model? They are somple and all they do is change the speed the shaft turns versus what your steering wheel is moving. I might see if a budy has one laying around, and see if it will fit.
--------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
|
Borgeson
member
Reged: Apr 25 2012
Loc: CT
|
|
Hey all. Jeff from Borgeson here. I'm not on this forum to directly sell this product as we are well distributed and have enough dealers to do that for us.
I would just like the opportunity to introduce myself and to help answer any questions or concerns on this rapidly developing new product.
The picture above and in the recent press releases and even on our own web site is of a non-functioning pre-production piece. We had to rush this one out to get it entered in new products at a recent trade show. We will have much more information such as dimensional drawings and additional photo's once the production boxes are finished.
The quick details are 14:1 ratio, smaller & lighter with a tight modern feel.
The new box will be welded just as we have done for all the other conversions we offer. This box will also have the crucial third mounting position as required.
Please post up any other technical questions an I will be happy to answer them.
|
4406forPOWER
super stock
Reged: Feb 02 2009
Loc: Nebraska
|
|
Thanks for the info. Is this a manual steering only box? Also what is the weight of this box? Thanks again
Edited by 470bee (Wed Apr 25 2012 04:40 PM)
|
Vacation-5
just idiot?
Reged: Mar 07 2007
Loc: Finally a HUSKER again
|
|
Quote:
Hey all. Jeff from Borgeson here. I'm not on this forum to directly sell this product as we are well distributed and have enough dealers to do that for us.
I would just like the opportunity to introduce myself and to help answer any questions or concerns on this rapidly developing new product.
The picture above and in the recent press releases and even on our own web site is of a non-functioning pre-production piece. We had to rush this one out to get it entered in new products at a recent trade show. We will have much more information such as dimensional drawings and additional photo's once the production boxes are finished.
The quick details are 14:1 ratio, smaller & lighter with a tight modern feel.
The new box will be welded just as we have done for all the other conversions we offer. This box will also have the crucial third mounting position as required.
Please post up any other technical questions an I will be happy to answer them.
Thanks Jeff, Nice to have someone with frist hand knowledge of something for once!
--------------------
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
|
Borgeson
member
Reged: Apr 25 2012
Loc: CT
|
|
Quote:
Thanks for the info. Is this a manual steering only box? Also what is the weight of this box? Thanks again
This is a power steering box. The box internally is a 14:1 ratio, this should equate to about 2.75-3 turns lock-to-lock on the car. This will be measured off a production box. The box weighs 25lbs.
|
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
|
|
Quote:
How much did the Falcon box cost you?
What do they retail for?
I got it through Summit when Summit was having a rare 15% off internet deal... Normally $520ish I paid $450 delivered... They offer a kit for the Mustang with the Steering shaft, hoses, a pump & brackets but since I'm doing a Falcon & the firewall/column is different I'm fabbing what I need... And since I'm doing a 5.0 HO w/EFI I'll be keeping the serpentine drive & the CII pump so I'll make my own hoses & do what I need to do to make it work...
--------------------
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
|
Ice~Eagle
Horrido
Reged: Nov 01 2011
Loc: Valles Marineris
|
|
The one thing I dont like seeing on anything that has to do with steering are welds. I'm sure you guys tested it, but I dunno.. it shouldn't be there.
--------------------
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
|
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
|
|
Yeah, you can't trust welds.....
--------------------
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
|
Ice~Eagle
Horrido
Reged: Nov 01 2011
Loc: Valles Marineris
|
|
Did it hit something? All I'm saying is on certain things I don't trust welds, otherwise I like em
--------------------
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
|
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
|
|
Quote:
Did it hit something? All I'm saying is on certain things I don't trust welds, otherwise I like em
Yeah, it hit an undersea mountain at a depth of 550 feet cruising at 30+ knots..... See the buckled steel behind the guy standing on the catwalk? That's buckled over two feet & there are welds all around it... If any had failed we wouldn't be looking at pictures of it.... If the welder knows what he's doing the weld is as strong if not stronger than the surrounding area... I've looked at the welds on my Borgeson box, they don't look anything like the welds Chrysler used to put these cars together... Closer to what I used to see when I was stationed on the floating drydock shown above...
--------------------
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
|
Ice~Eagle
Horrido
Reged: Nov 01 2011
Loc: Valles Marineris
|
|
Well I trust your judgment 100%, if you say the weld is good, its good!
--------------------
When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
|
72Swinger
super stock
Reged: Feb 23 2011
Loc: Nebraska
|
|
Our entire freakin cars are welded together mang......
--------------------
Mopar to the bone!!!
|
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
|
|
Quote:
Well I trust your judgment 100%, if you say the weld is good, its good!
I'd say Borgeson is betting their reputation on the fact the weld is good... They've done this a long time, no rookies... 
--------------------
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
|
Jjs72D
Not so lucky
Reged: Apr 03 2012
Loc: California
|
|
I'm impressed that Mr Borgeson logged on to help.
Jeff
|
astjp2
top fuel
Reged: Jan 19 2011
Loc: Utah and Alaska
|
|
I am suprised we were noticed! Tim
|
autoxcuda
I Live Here
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: So Cal
|
|
Quote:
Hey all. Jeff from Borgeson here. I'm not on this forum to directly sell this product as we are well distributed and have enough dealers to do that for us.
I would just like the opportunity to introduce myself and to help answer any questions or concerns on this rapidly developing new product.
The picture above and in the recent press releases and even on our own web site is of a non-functioning pre-production piece. We had to rush this one out to get it entered in new products at a recent trade show. We will have much more information such as dimensional drawings and additional photo's once the production boxes are finished.
The quick details are 14:1 ratio, smaller & lighter with a tight modern feel.
The new box will be welded just as we have done for all the other conversions we offer. This box will also have the crucial third mounting position as required.
Please post up any other technical questions an I will be happy to answer them.
Jeff,
Thanks for repsonding to this market.
Will a 12:1 box be an option or in the future?
Does the projected price come with the hardware (customer to install) to connect our steering columns to it?
Will it run with the Saginaw or Federal power steering pumps that come stock in our cars in terms of pressure and volume.
Are these units rebuilt or new?
Is the pitman shaft 100% new with new gear? Or resplined original/used unit? Or otherwise?
Thanks,
Steve Wall
--------------------
Fall Fling XVII
October 26 2013
Woodley Park, Van Nuys CA
www.cpwclub.com
Fri: Malibu Cruise
300+ show cars, 150+ swap, manf. midways
Edited by autoxcuda (Thu Apr 26 2012 01:39 AM)
|
Borgeson
member
Reged: Apr 25 2012
Loc: CT
|
|
Quote:
Jeff,
Thanks for repsonding to this market.
Will a 12:1 box be an option or in the future?
Does the projected price come with the hardware (customer to install) to connect our steering columns to it?
Will it run with the Saginaw or Federal power steering pumps that come stock in our cars in terms of pressure and volume.
Are these units rebuilt or new?
Is the pitman shaft 100% new with new gear? Or resplined original/used unit? Or otherwise?
Thanks,
Steve Wall
Steve,
Components exist to theoretically create a 12.7:1 box. This may be a possibility in the future pending core component availability.
The steering box comes with hose fitting adapters to be used with OEM Mopar P/S hoses. The column joint is not included in the price but available separately for much less than other Mopar column adapters on the market.
Our power steering box will be compatible with either the Saginaw or federal power steering pumps. For in-house testing and development we always use Saginaw P/S pumps. The Saginaw pumps are easily adjusted for pressure and flow to fine tune the characteristics of the power steering.
I prefer the term "re-manufactured" This steering box is actually constructed with three different production Delphi 600 series power steering boxes. The boxes are completely reworked / re-machined and reassembled with new bearings & seals. It is important to note that the Delphi 600 series boxes that we disassemble as cores show almost no signs of wear on any internal components.
The sector shaft we use is from one of the three Delphi 600 cores. It is shortened, re-splined to either 1.125" or 1.25"and re-threaded.
As with all of our power steering boxes this one will have our 3 year warranty. As to the welding comments there are only two people we trust to weld our steering boxes, they are artists. That coupled with filler material specific to our application has allowed us to produce over 10,000 welded power steering conversion boxes with no issues.
Thanks, Jeff
|
BigBlockMopar
super street
Reged: Jan 22 2003
Loc: The Netherlands
|
|
Are there any dimensional drawings available to compare your steeringbox to the stock powersteering box?
Reason for asking is that besides myseld, a number of folks are looking into installing a modernday Hemi into their Mopar A-body, while retaining powersteering.
Currently, at the driversside, the Hemi's exhaust will interfere heavily with a stock powersteering box.
It would be nice to see if your box provides more space so it won't be necessary to install a rack&pinion system for instance.
--------------------
BigBlockMopar.com
|
Borgeson
member
Reged: Apr 25 2012
Loc: CT
|
|
Quote:
Are there any dimensional drawings available to compare your steeringbox to the stock powersteering box?
Reason for asking is that besides myseld, a number of folks are looking into installing a modernday Hemi into their Mopar A-body, while retaining powersteering.
Currently, at the driversside, the Hemi's exhaust will interfere heavily with a stock powersteering box.
It would be nice to see if your box provides more space so it won't be necessary to install a rack&pinion system for instance.
As soon as the paint dries on the first production run I will capture multiple images at different angles and create a dimensional "drawing" like we do for our other conversions. You can see one here (full sized Ford) www.borgeson.com/imageCD/800115DIM
|
BigBlockMopar
super street
Reged: Jan 22 2003
Loc: The Netherlands
|
|
Sounds and looks good.
Thanks.
--------------------
BigBlockMopar.com
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
