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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2
      #7119659 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:30 PM Attachment (208 downloads)

I wanted to try the Victor std. port heads on this 400 with a cam change and bump in compression to see how much power we can get out of a somewhat budget type build.

What I didn't know is that Edelbrock has changed their Victor heads! A new heart shaped chamber and smaller more restrictive intake bowls.
I was worried about them performing well since the intake ports are down on flow compared to the older castings.
I was very happy to see a pretty decent amount of power for a pump gas budget deal. No porting was done, on anything.

New spec's are:
New Victor heads, OOTB with our valve job and small chamber cut.
Compression at 10.6:1.
Hughes 1.7 rockers (VERY nice rockers by the way!!).
Tried both the rpm intake, and victor intake which made the best avg. power over the rpm!
Holley TRUE Ultra 950HP
Still used the 1 7/8 TTI headers, same bottom end as prior but changed the cam to a custom grind: 255-260 @ .050 on a 110lca and .648/.638 gross lift.
And all the power came in at a very respectable rpm IMO.

I would highly recommend some porting on these heads to make the best of them, but like I said it was a budget type build on pump gas.

Still, if you look at the TQ and HP curves it's making really good avg. power AND torque.


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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119660 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:31 PM Attachment (192 downloads)



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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119662 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:32 PM Attachment (122 downloads)



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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119664 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:32 PM Attachment (91 downloads)



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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119666 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:33 PM Attachment (140 downloads)

Difference between the 2 builds...

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119669 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:36 PM Attachment (124 downloads)

pic1

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119682 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:47 PM Attachment (105 downloads)

2

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119686 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:49 PM Attachment (99 downloads)

3

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119689 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:50 PM Attachment (100 downloads)

4

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119691 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:50 PM Attachment (105 downloads)

5

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119692 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:51 PM Attachment (108 downloads)

6

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119693 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:51 PM Attachment (97 downloads)

7

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119696 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:52 PM Attachment (118 downloads)

8

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119697 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:53 PM Attachment (109 downloads)

9

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119700 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:55 PM Attachment (123 downloads)

10

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119702 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:56 PM Attachment (120 downloads)

11

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119704 - Wed Mar 14 2012 11:57 PM Attachment (137 downloads)

12

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Cab_Burge
Too Many Posts


Reged: Aug 23 2003
Loc: Bend,OR USA
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119744 - Thu Mar 15 2012 12:29 AM

What do you think of reducing the oil pressure some? What weight and type oil and oil temps? Is the AFR going fat on one side or is there something goofy on the chart? It is amazing (and satifying) sometimes what results we can get experimenting

--------------------
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)


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493_DART
The Beast!!


Reged: Jul 11 2004
Loc: WORST WEATHER IN USA
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: Cab_Burge]
      #7119790 - Thu Mar 15 2012 02:36 AM

Are those rockers a newer design from Hughes ?

They look SWEET !!!


did the victor chamber change as far as cc's OOTB ?

I could be way wrong ..... but is there a lot more in it? with that high lift cam and 1.7 rockers + victors....should be 550+ hp ?
Just curious--im not an engine builder


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gregsdart
master


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Frostbite falls, Mn ( Home of ...
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7119845 - Thu Mar 15 2012 06:25 AM

Thanks for the post, Brian, love to read this stuff. Any chance you might try stealth heads on this combo?

--------------------
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.25


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tboomerModerator
moparts moderator


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: The frozen wasteland of Iowa
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: gregsdart]
      #7119860 - Thu Mar 15 2012 06:49 AM

Great thread,Brian! I am also curious on the cc's out of the box. I hope my Victors are done soon!

--------------------
The adventures of Larry,Moe,Curley, Shemp and the Banger sisters continue!!


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ZIPPY
Get-Real! Get-X!


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: S.E. Michigan
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: tboomer]
      #7119936 - Thu Mar 15 2012 08:09 AM

Keep up the good work Brian

--------------------

11.0 @ 123 so far


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HardcoreB
super street


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Shelby Twp. Mi
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ZIPPY]
      #7119988 - Thu Mar 15 2012 09:08 AM

Good thread Brian.

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Chris2342
super gas


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: gregsdart]
      #7119992 - Thu Mar 15 2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Thanks for the post, Brian, love to read this stuff. Any chance you might try stealth heads on this combo?




A Stealth head dyno test would be great.

--------------------
Nautilus Racing
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.


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Drummer 1-3/4
Not Cheap!! Just Thrifty!!


Reged: Jan 30 2003
Loc: Not here, bro!
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7120013 - Thu Mar 15 2012 09:41 AM

I'd not heard that Edelbrock was revising the Victor heads. Can you answer any of these questions?

Got any "old" vs. "new" flow tests for OOB standard-port Victors?

What size are the new chambers?

Any other changes to the new Victors besides chamber design and bowl dimensions?

Thanks,
Brad

--------------------
WARNING: I'm just a street-car test-n-tuner with a "toy" flowbench and a rusty 10-second '73 Challenger that hasn't run since 2009 (LP10242014)


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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: Drummer 1-3/4]
      #7120077 - Thu Mar 15 2012 10:28 AM

Thanks guys!
They are 72cc, but after valve job/chamber cut they ended up at 74.5cc.
I milled them down to 70cc to make 10.6:1.

Yes I was a bit disappointed in the power...we were planning on having 550'ish HP and after talking with Edelbrock they are not changing the head anymore so this is how they'll be. They told us the head is now geared more for the PORTER or ENGINE BUILDER...kinda sucks because the old port was really a bolt it on and make some power deal and now, just like every other Mopar head out there it needs TLC.
But....after some port work I'd say it's going to flat out work. I'd bet with porting we'd see that missing 40+HP.

No other changes seem to be in place from what I could tell.
Still for 2500.00 more than the mild 427HP version it made decent power. Would have been nice to hit 550's but porting put it over budget.

--------------------

BRIAN HAFLIGER


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Drummer 1-3/4
Not Cheap!! Just Thrifty!!


Reged: Jan 30 2003
Loc: Not here, bro!
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7120132 - Thu Mar 15 2012 11:14 AM

Now you have me fighting the urge to go buy a(nother) set of the "original" Victors from a guy near where one of my cousin lives that's being sold for a few hundred $$$ less than new. /

--------------------
WARNING: I'm just a street-car test-n-tuner with a "toy" flowbench and a rusty 10-second '73 Challenger that hasn't run since 2009 (LP10242014)


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64Post
Whiney, slow internet crybaby


Reged: Aug 18 2003
Loc: all over
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7120199 - Thu Mar 15 2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Thanks guys!
They are 72cc, but after valve job/chamber cut they ended up at 74.5cc.
I milled them down to 70cc to make 10.6:1.

Yes I was a bit disappointed in the power...we were planning on having 550'ish HP and after talking with Edelbrock they are not changing the head anymore so this is how they'll be. They told us the head is now geared more for the PORTER or ENGINE BUILDER...kinda sucks because the old port was really a bolt it on and make some power deal and now, just like every other Mopar head out there it needs TLC.
But....after some port work I'd say it's going to flat out work. I'd bet with porting we'd see that missing 40+HP.

No other changes seem to be in place from what I could tell.
Still for 2500.00 more than the mild 427HP version it made decent power. Would have been nice to hit 550's but porting put it over budget.




Have you ported a set of the old victors? If so, what number did you get out of them?

Good thing this wasn't a 4.15 stroke build up, otherwise I would have to sell a kidney to buy the engine from you when you were done...


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BSB67
master


Reged: Feb 19 2005
Loc: Prospect, PA
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7120932 - Thu Mar 15 2012 09:21 PM

Thanks Brian.

What was the average and max power difference between the intakes?

--------------------

500" NA, Eddy head, pump gas, exhaust manifold with 2 1/2 exhaust with tailpipes
4150 lbs with driver, 3.23 gear, stock converter
11.68 @ 120.2 mph


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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: BSB67]
      #7120995 - Thu Mar 15 2012 09:57 PM

Quote:

Thanks Brian.

What was the average and max power difference between the intakes?




I'll post the graphs tomorrow nite. AVG HP and TQ was only 1 between the 2 intakes! It's a direct trade...low rpm power vs. high rpm power. If you call 5000-6500rpm high...LOL!

--------------------

BRIAN HAFLIGER


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hudsonhornet7x
Ben Dover


Reged: Jan 14 2012
Loc: Plumer, Pa
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7121366 - Fri Mar 16 2012 08:40 AM

I just picked up a set of standard port victors ( new in box) on ebay for $ 900

How do I tell if the heads are the newer style or the original?

I am excited to use these heads and they will be going on a 431 motor.

--------------------
You've never heard of a Hudson Hornet?!


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440Jim
Diamond Jim


Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: Southern Maryland
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7121380 - Fri Mar 16 2012 08:55 AM

My first look at the new build dyno sheet, showed a fairly high torque peak (5100). So I looked at the previous build and it was much lower (4200). That much higher torque peak surprised me. The entire rpm range was moved up considerably, but as you mentioned the peak RPM wasn't too high.

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Drummer 1-3/4
Not Cheap!! Just Thrifty!!


Reged: Jan 30 2003
Loc: Not here, bro!
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
      #7121584 - Fri Mar 16 2012 11:33 AM

Quote:

How do I tell if the heads are the newer style or the original?



If the chambers don't look like the pics that Brian posted above, they're the original style. It'll be pretty obvious if they're the older version.

--------------------
WARNING: I'm just a street-car test-n-tuner with a "toy" flowbench and a rusty 10-second '73 Challenger that hasn't run since 2009 (LP10242014)


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hudsonhornet7x
Ben Dover


Reged: Jan 14 2012
Loc: Plumer, Pa
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: Drummer 1-3/4]
      #7121638 - Fri Mar 16 2012 12:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

How do I tell if the heads are the newer style or the original?



If the chambers don't look like the pics that Brian posted above, they're the original style. It'll be pretty obvious if they're the older version.




Thanks. By my pictures it looks like I have the older style. Is the older style preferrable to the new?


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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
      #7121657 - Fri Mar 16 2012 12:23 PM

OOTB the newer head will be down on flow and power, but has a better chamber.
I would not run the new head without a good valve job and chamber cut. That's what we did and it makes the head MUCH better.
Bowl porting is usually around 200-400 dollars depending on who does it, but I know after porting these heads will be well over 300cfm at .500 lift. Ours went 286cfm at .500 AFTER valve job and chamber cut.
But.......remember the chamber of the newer head is better (after chamber cut and some porting)and would really lend itself to a pump gas engine needing a large quench area.

From what I see, if you compared the older head to the newer head FULLY PORTED the newer head will make more power. But OOTB...no way!

--------------------

BRIAN HAFLIGER


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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7122403 - Fri Mar 16 2012 10:12 PM Attachment (51 downloads)

RPM intake graph:

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7122404 - Fri Mar 16 2012 10:13 PM Attachment (50 downloads)

RPM intake

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ou812
super gas


Reged: Jan 31 2003
Loc: SoCal
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7122406 - Fri Mar 16 2012 10:14 PM Attachment (70 downloads)

RPM vs. Victor intake:

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G_bob
super gas


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Riverside, Ca
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7122603 - Sat Mar 17 2012 02:05 AM

Interesting Brian, that this motor made about the same peak numbers as Mrs Gbob's 426 with the 950 on it.
Completely different combos, but similar peak outputs (although at different rpm levels).
426 results

--------------------

G-bob's Website


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tboomerModerator
moparts moderator


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: The frozen wasteland of Iowa
Re: 400 BB Mopar dyno test part 2 [Re: ou812]
      #7122891 - Sat Mar 17 2012 10:50 AM

I like that graph...When I get my Victors back,I will post the numbers,Brian. I am pretty sure they are the new style.

--------------------
The adventures of Larry,Moe,Curley, Shemp and the Banger sisters continue!!


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