Tom_440
master
Reged: Mar 05 2003
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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I'm a CTD newbie so please go easy on me if this is an obvious issue 
I have to depress the accelerator and crank the motor a bit on my '97 Ram if the truck has not been run for a day. Once the motor is warm, it will start and idle fine all day long. Seems to run OK to. I changed the fuel filter. I'm guessing it is a fuel issue but I'm not sure where to go next...
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dodgeram440
top fuel
Reged: Feb 19 2006
Loc: Piqua, Ohio
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Are you waiting til the "wait to start" light goes out? This is a timer indicating that the glow plugs have warmed up and the engine is ready to start. Should only take a few seconds.
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1986 Dodge D100 318
Still waiting to get parts needed to swap in my 440
"What people say they want and what they respond to are two totally different things." -Sam Young (R.I.P.)
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Tom_440
master
Reged: Mar 05 2003
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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Yes. I wait for the light to go out and it still doesn't like to fire easily. Do glow plugs go bad? Batteries are new and motor cranks well.
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NITROUSN
moparts member
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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No glow plugs. You have a air intake pre heater. You will need to check for voltage to the heater and the ground. There also are relays that send power to the grid.
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pinkduster
top fuel
Reged: Nov 25 2004
Loc: Near Reading PA USA
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The heater grid in my buddies 91 D350 hasn't worked since he bought the truck like three years ago... He doesn't have any starting issues unless it is very, very cold outside. 
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Tom_440
master
Reged: Mar 05 2003
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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Well its been dipping down into the low 80's/high '70's here lately so maybe its something else??? I've read about losing prime - would that cause difficult starting after sitting overnight, but not affect starting after the motor has already run?
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J_BODY
master
Reged: May 01 2003
Loc: aZLiViN
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So when is the last time the fuel return lines have been replaced? You're in the desert and it's old enough to be a 12 valve so I would guess they've been replace at the least once (dry rot/cracked). Also too low of an idle can cause some cold start issues. Should be 750rpm in gear a/c engaged. BTW I have a few customers in the area with inop heater grids and it doesn't affect them a bit.....however they have been advised to not go where it's "cold" (below freezing).
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kenworth_goose
mopar
Reged: May 13 2006
Loc: burlington ky
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You shouldn't need the intake heater until you get down around freezing. A lot of them will still start no problem. I'd check the lift pump if it's the injection pump get ready for that bill. 
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pinkduster
top fuel
Reged: Nov 25 2004
Loc: Near Reading PA USA
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Quote:
I'd check the lift pump if it's the injection pump get ready for that bill.
Been there... Done that.
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J_BODY
master
Reged: May 01 2003
Loc: aZLiViN
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Quote:
I'd check the lift pump if it's the injection pump get ready for that bill.
It's a 12 VALVE!!! Go sit in the corner!
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NITROUSN
moparts member
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Quote:
Quote:
I'd check the lift pump if it's the injection pump get ready for that bill.
It's a 12 VALVE!!! Go sit in the corner!
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pinkduster
top fuel
Reged: Nov 25 2004
Loc: Near Reading PA USA
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Quote:
It's a 12 VALVE!!! Go sit in the corner!
Oh really? I guess my 92 isn't a 12 valve then. 
Low pressure from lift pump and an irratic idle... Replace lift pump, remove, rebuild, reinstall injection pump, set valve lash... About 2 grand later... 
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moparmarks
Mopartician
Reged: Nov 10 2003
Loc: Colorado High Desert
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Quote:
You shouldn't need the intake heater until you get down around freezing. A lot of them will still start no problem. I'd check the lift pump if it's the injection pump get ready for that bill.
My heaters kick on when it's gets in the mid 40's like today. Also have started it when it was in the 20's and forget to let the heaters warm up and she starts right up.
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71RR 71SSP 72SSP 73W200 78D300 92CTD 97DAKOTA
Moparmarks Southwestern Sheet Metal
Grand Jct. CO
970-261-7039
moparmark@bresnan.net
Carlisle P196-201
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Tom_440
master
Reged: Mar 05 2003
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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The truck idles nice and starts well when warm. Thinking I'll check those rubber fuel hoses before tossing $2K at a $4K truck...
Thanks for all the help guys!
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J_BODY
master
Reged: May 01 2003
Loc: aZLiViN
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Quote:
Quote:
It's a 12 VALVE!!! Go sit in the corner!
Oh really? I guess my 92 isn't a 12 valve then.
Low pressure from lift pump and an irratic idle... Replace lift pump, remove, rebuild, reinstall injection pump, set valve lash... About 2 grand later...
12 valve yes.....p7100 pump equipped 12 valve?? NOT A CHANCE!! apple.....meet orange!
...  2K for a reman VE and lift pump...hmmmm.
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Blown71X
super gas
Reged: Feb 25 2003
Loc: A tad North of Indy
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Oh J..what are you thinking ?
You know full well the keyboard mechanics know more than those of us who actually DO this for a living.
 
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shinnery
super street
Reged: Sep 07 2003
Loc: Hawley, Texas
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My '92, I have trouble getting it to turn over a full revolution before it starts, no waiting on the lights and maybe a month since last started. Just wish I knew if previous owners took care of the KDP.
Bryce
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Every electronic device is manufactured with smoke stored deep inside...
only a true genius can find a way to set it free.
The most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government and I am here to help!"
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440trk
President, Pennsylvania Hooters Chapter
Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: near Harrisburg, Pa
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Quote:
My '92, I have trouble getting it to turn over a full revolution before it starts, no waiting on the lights and maybe a month since last started. Just wish I knew if previous owners took care of the KDP.
Bryce
I didn't think the 93-earliers had the KDP issue. I thought the addition of the P7100 pump was the cause of the pin coming loose (or so say one of the CTD forums) I guess the KDP could still occur in a pre-93...but apparently it's not a common occurance? Anyone care to assist on this info? I'm possibly looking for a 92-93 CTD...and would like to clarify this, if possible.
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Mike (440trk)
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!
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daithi2
member
Reged: Sep 17 2007
Loc: Amarillo, Tx
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no KDP on VE 6bts, only p7100's.
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89 D250 SWB- CDS 13mm, II twins.
www.texasstreetcars.com
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DPelletier
Friendless
Reged: Apr 20 2005
Loc: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Just for clarity;
- My understanding is that the KDP IS a potential problem on 1st gen (rotary pumped) engines as well as P7100 (inline pump) engines (the pump itself has nothing to do with the problem) BUT the earlier trucks had a tighter tolerance on the dowel hole and therefore it is much less likely to become a problem. The timing covers were revised in and around 1998/1999 to include a step down on the bore hole which eliminated the problem.
It's been several years and I'm going off memory, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Dave
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1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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DPelletier
Friendless
Reged: Apr 20 2005
Loc: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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From Cummins;
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forum...w-do-i-fix.html
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1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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daithi2
member
Reged: Sep 17 2007
Loc: Amarillo, Tx
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differnt timming covers on 89-93(ve) are different then 94-98(p7100) ve covers are a solid push on the dowl no slack, the p pump covers have a bit of slop. ive taken both apart several times. does the chance exist of a kdp in a ve truck yes, ive never heard or seen it, but it possible. personally i wouldnt worrie about a kdp on a ve truck, my 93 still has its dowl and its a truggy rock crawler...
also notice what section that link is in on tdr..
Quote:
TDR Roundtable > TDResource > Technical Reference and FAQ's > 2nd Gen 12 Valve Engine and Transmission FAQ
What is a KDP and how do I fix it?
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89 D250 SWB- CDS 13mm, II twins.
www.texasstreetcars.com
Edited by daithi2 (Thu Oct 23 2008 09:06 PM)
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DPelletier
Friendless
Reged: Apr 20 2005
Loc: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
differnt timming covers on 89-93(ve) are different then 94-98(p7100) ve covers are a solid push on the dowl no slack, the p pump covers have a bit of slop. ive taken both apart several times. does the chance exist of a kdp in a ve truck yes, ive never heard or seen it, but it possible. personally i wouldnt worrie about a kdp on a ve truck, my 93 still has its dowl and its a truggy rock crawler...
also notice what section that link is in on tdr..
Quote:
TDR Roundtable > TDResource > Technical Reference and FAQ's > 2nd Gen 12 Valve Engine and Transmission FAQ
What is a KDP and how do I fix it?
Yep, I'm aware of that. You are correct that it is far more likely to have the problem with a later (p-pumped) truck, but that has more to do with the change in tolerance. Cummins has actually implied that they buy the dowel pins themselves from a 3rd party and THEY made the pin smaller at some point. OTOH, although it is rare I HAVE heard reports of VE equipped trucks having the KDP problem. It isn't until the later timing covers with the blind hole was introduced that the problem goes away for good. I wouldn't likely bother ripping apart a perfectly good 1st gen just to fix it though.
Out of curiousity, did you ever try a dowel out of a VE engine in a P7100 cover or visa versa? That would tell us whether the dowel is smaller on the later motors or the alignment hole was bigger.
Cheers,
Dave
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1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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daithi2
member
Reged: Sep 17 2007
Loc: Amarillo, Tx
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the dowel is the same, the hole in the timming cover is different, ive p-pumped two orgininal ve trucks and you hafta swap timming covers.
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89 D250 SWB- CDS 13mm, II twins.
www.texasstreetcars.com
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DPelletier
Friendless
Reged: Apr 20 2005
Loc: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
the dowel is the same, the hole in the timming cover is different, ive p-pumped two orgininal ve trucks and you hafta swap timming covers.
Thanks, I've always wondered if it was the dowel or the hole that was changed.
Dave
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1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Tom_440
master
Reged: Mar 05 2003
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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So its been a while...
The fuel shutoff solenoid was the problem... Why it appeared to be temperature related - I have no idea. Maybe the rubber boot that tangled with the spring would warm and allow the solenoid to work better when heated? 
Thanks for the help!
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cageman
member
Reged: Mar 17 2008
Loc: Jamestown, ND USA
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Cool thanks for the update, my 94 cummins starts a little hard, unless Im on the fuel pedal, then it fires right up, my 93 cummins, that thing starts so fast I cant turn the key back fast enough, instant ignition.
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