fastmark
super gas
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Abilene, Texas
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I hate to put a damper on things, but I knew it was too good to be true.The back panels fade and tear up just like the fronts. It makes no sense to just make the fronts. People will hold off on the fronts until the rears are made.You state that the new fronts will match the old rears. What rears? I don't have any of those either.Who wants to have a car with nice fronts and either no or crappy rears. The last thing I want is half an interior. This is a project that needs to be done in the complete package or you are going to cut your sales drastically. I knew you could not sell a complete set for $450. $900 will change things for some people, not for me. I have needed them for 20 years so the money is not the point here with me. I was going to order three sets immediately, after I ordered and trial fitted the first set of coarse. Now, I will just order the fronts for one car and get ready for the announcement to come, "Well, there was not enough sales of the fronts to justify the tremendous expense of the rears so they will not be made". I might as well send off my originals to Just dashes and get back a complete set of something close.
You posted this to get some feedback. Well there is my  . I have talked to Mike several times about these panels and he is just not willing to do them at the present. Just ask him about the sales of the 70 cuda grilles. Good luck with your project. I'll support you all I can on the fronts (if they are correct) but don't count on lots of sales at first; until the rears are made.
Edited by fastmark (Sat Nov 07 2009 08:39 AM)
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floyd
super gas
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: MD
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Quote:
Joel, suggestion. The originals had molded in guide lines on the back sides of the panels for most of the holes, hopefully yours have these as well? Also, I'm assuming these are molded in the original material (Polypropylene)? If so it's easy to add holes by simply drilling a small guide hole and using a Unibit to get the final hole size.
No need for a hole punch setup at all and Polypropylene is very crack resistant, especially modern blends, Unibit and it's a piece of cake. If they are some other material like ABS (hopefully not) cracking is much more likely, regardless of how you make the hole.
I'll second Scott's comment on the unibit. I am amazed how clean a cut they make in that material. Very easy to control as well.
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burnt_o_matic
member
Reged: Apr 13 2005
Loc: Jacksonville, FL
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Quote:
don't count on lots of sales at first; until the rears are made
I hope you're in the minority.
 I'll buy a set of fronts only. <-- (early adopter)
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Burnt out -- running on automatic.
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Quikfish
The Rodent Wrangler
Reged: Dec 22 2003
Loc: Spokane, WA
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I don't know what the crying is about. all you have to do is look at how a set of Palco fronts look with OEM back pieces to be thankful for what this guy is doing. I know that the black fades and is hard to match too, but this is so far superior to our current option. I applaud you dude. 
My back pieces are mint but they are black and I need b5. I will probably buy the new ones and dye the whole deal. Heck of a lot better than trying to resurrect 40 year old originals.
It will be interesting cutting the holes for the attaching points on the woodgrain inserts... 
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Don't trust your car to Bill's Auto Works transport service. PM me and ask me why.
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Pacnorthcuda
Down Shifting
Reged: Nov 19 2007
Loc: Kirkland, Washington
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If they look good I will buy a set of the fronts and hope they are,in fact, a good match to original rears.
Certainly our original fronts take the brunt of the damage/wear and are the most important piece, but the color/sheen/grain needs to be a pretty good match to original. And I bet it will be.
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cudaized
super street
Reged: Oct 06 2003
Loc: South, FL
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Quote:
...A small number of the initial production will be white and colors will be available about once a year on a pre-order basis... with a minimum of about 30 of each color... so... if there is enough demand there will be color panels...
How will you determine the correct color of the panels other then Black? Do you have samples of originals?
Ola Nilsson
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1970 `cuda340 convertible 4-speed Rallye Red with Red interior
1970 `cuda340 hard top 3-speed Rallye Red with Red interior
www.cudaized.com
1970-71 Plymouth and Dodge E-Body Convertible Registry
www.ebodyconvertibleregistry.com
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1_WILD_RT
I Live Here
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
How will you determine the correct color of the panels other then Black? Do you have samples of originals?
Ola Nilsson
FWIW that Red panel looks like it's been dyed.. I have some orignal red panels that look similar on the front where they have been dyed also but the back red is much brighter & more of a true red rather than the muddy red/orange that is shown above...
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ScottSmith_Harms
Doc Bug
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Spokane Washington
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Quote:
FWIW that Red panel looks like it's been dyed..
If "Mr. King Of The Red interior Cuda's" Ola posted that pic I sorta doubt it's been dyed.
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1_WILD_RT
I Live Here
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
Quote:
FWIW that Red panel looks like it's been dyed..
If "Mr. King Of The Red interior Cuda's" Ola posted that pic I sorta doubt it's been dyed.
Well then my monitor sure makes it look wrong...And just like PPG E5 red interior dye made my old interior panels 
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stwheels
super gas
Reged: Feb 13 2003
Loc: Edmonton , Alberta , Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
FWIW that Red panel looks like it's been dyed..
If "Mr. King Of The Red interior Cuda's" Ola posted that pic I sorta doubt it's been dyed.
Well then my monitor sure makes it look wrong...And just like PPG E5 red interior dye made my old interior panels
LOL ... Well there's the problem right there Randy, the panels are supposed to be E4 not E5!
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Doug Lepak
The Steering Wheel Guy
Specializing in MOPAR wood grain steering wheels
web site: www.stwheelz.com
Edited by stwheels (Sun Nov 08 2009 11:56 PM)
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1_WILD_RT
I Live Here
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
LOL ... Well there's the problem right there Randy, the panels are supposed to be E4 not E5!
My point is the undyed back side is a brighter more red color than the dyed panels & my dyed panels look very similar to what the monitor makes Ola's posted panel look...
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ScottSmith_Harms
Doc Bug
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Spokane Washington
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Either way, pics can be misleading with colors. Hopefully Joel will use good original examples (of whatever color) when doing a material color match before running any.
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1_WILD_RT
I Live Here
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
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I agree 100%
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metroman
member
Reged: Feb 27 2006
Loc: georgia
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we have collected several interior pieces to get color matches from... unfortunately even when using the backside(less sun fading) of door panels, seat backs and rear panels there still is some variation from piece to piece especially in the reds and blues.... and the green... there must be 10 slightly different variations of green..
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TONY_DAGOSTINO
super gas
Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: DELAWARE
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hi,
i saw the sample panels at the Garlits show last weekend.
what they have so far is very nice looking.
i spoke to Joel at Metro in reference to the color issue.
1st of all, the color on a smooth ungrained surface looks very different then on a grained surface
i recently went thru that with a paint supplier.
when i recieved the interior paint, i test shot it on a flat surface, it was many shades off to the color on the grained interior panel. we went back and forth a few times, i then sprayed the color on the grained side of a broken interior part that i had with half of it taped off so the paint store could see the difference. to my great surprise the color was now very very close. so dont use the rear ungrained side of interior trim as a color sample to the grain, it will appear very different when a smooth surface is compared to a grained surface.
i also told Joel that there is no way to match any of the colors exact. do you know why? BECAUSE THEY DIDNT MATCH FROM THE FACTORY!!! i have many of the same color plastic trim pieces for a 1970 challenger only application that dont fit any other e-bodies (so i know the items couldnt be from a different year)and every part is a different shade, some very very very different. so im not trying to defend Metros future products, but please dont expect the colors other than black to match. they may match somebodys or a piece or 2 of what you have or have seen, but they wont match it all, dont expect it to
somewhere i have some pics of a survivor 70 cuda with about 5 shades of green interior pieces, if i find it ill post them
thanks
tony
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CLICK ON LOGO FOR WEBSITE
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TONY_DAGOSTINO
super gas
Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: DELAWARE
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pic
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CLICK ON LOGO FOR WEBSITE
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TONY_DAGOSTINO
super gas
Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: DELAWARE
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2
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CLICK ON LOGO FOR WEBSITE
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denfireguy
mopar
Reged: Jun 15 2008
Loc: Colorado
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Thanks for making that point,Tony! My survivor (73) was the same way (B5 interior). All of the back sides were not the same either. As a matter of fact, the passenger side kick panel was a dyed black piece.
Mine only had 24K on it when I bought it in the 70s so the odds are pretty good it is all original. That also is bourn out when the body was stripped and there was no previous accident damage that may have damaged an interior piece and it would have been replaced. My guess is that they ran out of cast blue kick panels and dyed one for the assembly line.
Craig
PS, I have lots of blue pieces available for matching if needed.
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2003 Durango, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan
Previous Non-Mopars: Schwinn Tornado
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anlauto
Cuda de baril
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Georgetown Ontario Canada
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Years ago there was a Cuda that went through OE judging with a non black interior.
When I pointed out the fact that all the panels were painted the same shade, when in fact they should be several different shades, I got critized big time and told that I was a fool and that obiviously when the cars were new they were all the same colour and they just faded differently... 
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DON'T ARRANGE TO HAVE ME SENT TO NO ASYLUM...
www.agar.homestead.com
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anlauto
Cuda de baril
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Georgetown Ontario Canada
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Will these new panels be MOULDED in colour or just painted colours like the current repops?
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DON'T ARRANGE TO HAVE ME SENT TO NO ASYLUM...
www.agar.homestead.com
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TONY_DAGOSTINO
super gas
Reged: Jan 19 2003
Loc: DELAWARE
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from what i understood joel said they would be molded
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CLICK ON LOGO FOR WEBSITE
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ScottSmith_Harms
Doc Bug
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Spokane Washington
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In the world of injection molding color matching has ALWAYS been and remains a problem, especially when multiple parts are run on different machines, different days, different raw materials, different batches, or even by different vendors.
Color matching techniques these days are very sophisticated, much like paint matching is done, and even then most molders use a control sample and the human eye as the final quality control "test" which is how they were done in the 60's and 70's.
Due to the varying sizes of the interior parts it is almost certain that the parts were run in various machines (they require different clamp tonnage to run them) possibly utilzing variable batches or sources of colored raw material, certainly if the two machines were run at different locations.
Dash pieces like under dash "elbows" are made of ABS, an entirely different material than the Polypropylene or Polyethylene door panels (a material test would need to be made on an original panel to determine the original being made of PP or PE), these materials all accept color additives differently which may result in two different end result colors. Even texture plays a role in the final color we see (as Tony points out, the grained side and the flat side are in fact the same color, they just appear different due to the texture).
So, if Joel sets out to match a high quality original sample (as opposed to an old faded part) he should be able to get a good match to what the "average" color door panel was. I can pretty much gaurantee you that no effort will match exactly, it's pretty darn difficult doing an EXACT color match to an existing part but with a good effort the results will likely please most customers.
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cudaized
super street
Reged: Oct 06 2003
Loc: South, FL
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Quote:
..some variation from piece to piece especially in the reds and blues.... and the green... there must be 10 slightly different variations of green..
and at least 4 variations of the Plymouth Red.
Joel, I welcome your contibution to our hobby and am looking forward to ordering some.
Quote:
FWIW that Red panel looks like it's been dyed.. I have some orignal red panels that look similar on the front where they have been dyed also but the back red is much brighter & more of a true red rather than the muddy red/orange that is shown above...
Quote:
My point is the undyed back side is a brighter more red color than the dyed panels & my dyed panels look very similar to what the monitor makes Ola's posted panel look...
Randy,
It must be the picture/lighting or monitor effects. This particular original Red panel has not been dyed. It is in it’s natural form. It was saved from atmospheric and solar effects a long time ago. I have owned it for quite some time. Here is a picture of the rear.
Quote:
If "Mr. King Of The Red interior Cuda's" Ola posted that pic I sorta doubt it's been dyed.
Thanks Scott. I do happened to have …. “a few” …. original Red interior pieces laying around.
I agree with Tony and think that his point is well taken. There are many shades, even if the atmospheric or solar effects did not affect the pieces. I also see a different shade in the lower dash (and other) Barracuda vs. Challenger pieces. At least in some of the original Red (non-dyed) pieces that I have.
Ola
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1_WILD_RT
I Live Here
Reged: Jan 15 2004
Loc: Today? Who Knows?
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Ola, I meant no disrespect, apparently either my monitor, your camera or dye lots for whatever reason you panel looks to be a completely different red from my old Challenger... I pulled down a kick panel & cleaned it up today.. It looks much less orange then the backside photo you just posted..  What ever the case, I'm sure dye lots varied & whatever color they come out being will be better than we have now....
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7dcuda
member
Reged: Nov 06 2009
Loc: GA
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Awesome news. Don't forget the rear panels, seatbacks and kickpanels too!!
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fastmark
super gas
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Abilene, Texas
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BE&A is doing the seatbacks. They should be out soon. I really hope these new guys do the back panels very soon.
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ScottSmith_Harms
Doc Bug
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Spokane Washington
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...........I also heard about BE&A's seatbacks, hopefully both vendors get thier grains to match the factory grain close enough so that they all look good together, that's not going to be an easy accomplishment for either vendor. Let's also hope they mold them from the correct OEM type of raw material because IT WILL make a difference, I don't see that Joel has replied to my question about that subject?
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metroman
member
Reged: Feb 27 2006
Loc: georgia
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sorry Scott... i did'nt realize that was a question. The material used will be PP. Matching 70-71 and 71-74 B and E body seatbacks will follow toward the end of January. Challenger door panels with woodgrain inserts are due by the end of February.
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metroman
member
Reged: Feb 27 2006
Loc: georgia
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Quote:
BE&A is doing the seatbacks. They should be out soon. I really hope these new guys do the back panels very soon.
new guys?.. thats funny
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ScottSmith_Harms
Doc Bug
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Spokane Washington
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Sounds good Joel! Don't forget the matching rear panels!
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fastmark
super gas
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Abilene, Texas
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Quote:
Quote:
BE&A is doing the seatbacks. They should be out soon. I really hope these new guys do the back panels very soon.
new guys?.. thats funny
I meant that you were new guys doing the door panels. I know you guys have been around for along time. I have bought some things from you.
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metroman
member
Reged: Feb 27 2006
Loc: georgia
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i'm probably opening a can of worms.... but i have about 5 sets of perfect rear panels and saw 3-4 more sets at Garlits this past weekend... who is going to pay $400+ for a new reproduction when you can buy excellent originals between 20 and 100 bucks?
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BS27ROB
enthusiast
Reged: Apr 14 2005
Loc: PA
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Quote:
when you can buy excellent originals between 20 and 100 bucks?
You can't find excellent originals for a conv. for that kind of money.
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metroman
member
Reged: Feb 27 2006
Loc: georgia
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Quote:
Quote:
when you can buy excellent originals between 20 and 100 bucks?
You can't find excellent originals for a conv. for that kind of money.
now that i can agree on
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ScottSmith_Harms
Doc Bug
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Spokane Washington
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Well a couple reasons Joel. First off I'm the kind of guy that would gladly pay the money to get a matched set of 4 super accurate reproductions, as would allot of people I deal with. No used rear panels will match your new ones exactly, trust me, no matter how good your effort, there will be a difference in how they appear.
A set of 4 fresh new ones will trump any used/new combo set you put together, Im guessing by a fair margin. I also undestand tooling costs, and that convertible and hard tops will require sepperate tooling. Then there's seat backs making it 8 molds total, 10 if you do kick panels. Big bucks for sure. Then there's Challengers......................
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anlauto
Cuda de baril
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Georgetown Ontario Canada
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Scott's got a really REALLY good point
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DON'T ARRANGE TO HAVE ME SENT TO NO ASYLUM...
www.agar.homestead.com
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denfireguy
mopar
Reged: Jun 15 2008
Loc: Colorado
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Quote:
i'm probably opening a can of worms.... but i have about 5 sets of perfect rear panels and saw 3-4 more sets at Garlits this past weekend... who is going to pay $400+ for a new reproduction when you can buy excellent originals between 20 and 100 bucks?
I bet all of them were black or white. The colored panels did not fare as well and are in short supply. Dying them kind of works but still not the same as OEM.
I think the most accurate color would be found on the back side of the kick panels since they are not usually in the sun at all.
Matching is important. Mine all match now: they are all junk.
Do what you have to do, I am behind you all the way. I am set for now, I bought a good set of black ones ($700 shipped) and redyed them. The redyes will work for a while but I will keep an eye out for availabilty of new ones.
Thanks for taking an interest in this, the doomsayers will keep you honest, but if you make them, there will be buyers.
Craig
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2003 Durango, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan
Previous Non-Mopars: Schwinn Tornado
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domingo
el master
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Lima, Peru
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You need to at least make the cuda rears to match your fronts.
No matter how good your repros are there will always be a difference and when coupled to a set of original rears the difference will stick out like a sore thumb.
I would toss my "almost perfect" originals if yours are super close to original, just to have brand new door panels.
But I wont do that if I will only be replacing the fronts. If you guys never come up with repro rears, what am I gonna do with a mismatched interior??? 
I dont want to rain on your parade, but thats what I think and what a lot ofother people also think. Now if you offered all 4 panels, that would be a whole different story.
I can sure tell you you wont be able to gauge your real sales potential by offering only fronts. There is a LOT of people that will hold back and discourage you from making the rears, which would definetly be a shame. 
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Mopar Parts & Restoration
www.playbackauto.com
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lakerism
member
Reged: Apr 02 2005
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I'm not so sure the original rears will stick out like a sore thumb next to the repop fronts unless in a vert with the top down...I have all orignal panels except the door panels which were done by Just Dashes...they are black and I have been to many shows and won many trophies and NO ONE has noticed...yet! 
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ScottSmith_Harms
Doc Bug
Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Spokane Washington
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Quote:
they are black and I have been to many shows and won many trophies and NO ONE has noticed...yet!
Well I've seen more than a few cars done that way, and it wasn't hard to spot, but I don't make it a point to go around telling the owners about it either. Not noticing and not saying something when you notice it are two different deals, maybe you've just been showing your car to some polite onlookers?
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